Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update

And for this, try to accuse Yahoo!News, not the site:

http://www.mafhoum.com/press7/213S23.htm

Yes, there is a distinct difference between an insurgency and terrorism. But the funny thing is, most of the times, the guys blowing up tanks are the same that behead civilians. Are there "part-time terrorists/part-time insurgents"? Because I'm not sure if you noticed that the same "reporters" that film, present and comment on suicide bombers going off in their trucks or IEDs blowing up Humvees are the same ones that film, present and comment the "confessions/testimonies" of civilians kept in cages or the same civilians having their heads slowly sawn off. Perhaps their main job is terrorism but on the side they take part in the insurgency as well.

Well, no, on CNN they don't show the gruesome killings of hostages at all (and I wonder why!) Is it possible that it's not me that's watching CNN, and it's you, who knows?

Re to the mythical figure of 100.000 victims, let me guess: you NEVER bothered to find out what methodology was used in compiling the figure. I did and it was quite an interesting insight. I'll discuss it with you, if you like, when you actually examine the original report - you can find it here: The Lancet (free registration required)

Also about the yahoo!news entry: yahoo!news is a website, it's a *virtual* place and it only takes newsflashes from around the world and reprints it on the web. There are no yahoo!news reporters on the ground, anywhere on this planet The link you gave is nothing more than another instance of the same tired piece of news, rerun for the Nth time. (Comparison: think of it like the news of 60.000 dead in Timisoara, in December 1989. Whereas it certainly made headlines around the planet, it was also as bogus at it could be).

Regards,
valachus

This post has been edited by valachus on December 12, 2004 12:05 am

There is a difference in weapons and methods but the political goal being pursued can be the same and the guys pursuing it can also be the same.

If stupid expressions like "war on terrorism" weren't wielded with such enthusiasm, things would perhaps be clearer in some minds. But, of course, the objective of using loose definition is precisely to confuse minds.

When your country is invaded, you have the obligation to make what you can, in any ways, to trow out the "eliberators". Its a clear thing - iraqis dont want to be "eliberated", like almost of the countrys who was in US mind. Vlad Tepes was a terrorist , because used un-orthodox way to make war.... but this terrorist fights for his country, to defend it.

Iama

Excellent point, Valachus. But you may find it impossible to budge certain people from their pre-conceived ideas and perceptions that they have created for themselves in this thread.

I would think that a substantial part (probably a majority) of the Iraki population was happy to see Saddam go. A majority probably don't want a democracy and are just wondering what business the US still believe it has in the country. The answer of course is that the neocons will stay the course and not leave the boat until the stage is set for international humiliation . But first they must finish sinking the US economy and gutting the $ which they try hard to change into the next banana republic currency. "A couple of lettuces ? Four bags of dollars, pliz..."

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 14, 2004 06:44 pm

Here's an interesting photo:


Apparently, the G.I. in front is holding a Soviet-era PPSh SMG!

Reportedly, the picture was taken on November 23, 2004 by Scott Peterson/Getty Images. These chaps are members of the U.S. Marines of the Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) company of 1st Battalion 3rd Marines, clearing a building in Fallujah.

Col. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 14, 2004 10:24 pm

I never heard of French partisans blowing up French police HQs or trying to assasinate any French public servant that happened to be subordined to the nazi occupiers. Never heard of La Resistance beheading scores of foreign workers brought by the Nazis for the building of the Atlantic Wall or bombing the living soul out of Paris civilians because just because the Nazis had a nice time in the city. Never heard of La Resistance mounting a terror campaign against Vichy France, a collaborator and capitulard state.
Call me old-fashioned but that's how I think that freedom fighters, partisans and insurgents act: like the French WW II Resistance and not like the foreign terrorists that pour over the Iraqi borders and try to provoke a civil war and kill whatever form of democracy appears there.

I don't think it's a 60-year old gun.
My bet is the weapon was stolen by the criminal GI from a Iranian humanitarian worker with a gun collection hobby
Seriously now, Iran used to produce it, it was massively used during the Iran-Iraq war and here's a link to see why:
PPSh video - 1 mb file
Naturally, that's not proof enough that there are Iran connections to the Iraqi insurgency! For some of the forum members, I mean. (Why would the peace-loving Iranian mullahs want to crush a Western-friendly Iraqi democracy? Beats me, you know )

This post has been edited by valachus on December 15, 2004 12:13 am

And why do you believe that culture A should behave the same way as culture B in all aspects ?

Reality check : there are are no "foreign terrorists pouring over the border". They number a few hundreds at most.

It's 99,99 % an Iraki war. Someone needs to correct Fox News numbers from time to time.

So what do the Irakis really want ? Well, check the polls...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...oll-cover_x.htm

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 15, 2004 12:58 am

Hmmm, we should listen to Mr. Turner: "We are all spreading the American values."

Have you seen any dead GI on TV? Or Polish dead soldiers? My friend, the problem is that you can watch horror movies and movies with crimes , killings , beheadings, etc, but not reality. (even after 12 PM)... Have you ever asked yourself why ? I'm not a partisan of Iraqui freedom. Frankly I don't care. But I won't let a bunch of politicians to explain me that they really do care about Iraqui peoples,etc,etc. Actually, the other major world powers refused to step in this adventure. And maybe they are more informed than we are. I found the site as pretty complex (one may see many things - actually horrible crimes but not only from US, but also from the other countries).
I only said simply that that is the image of war (killings, beheading, car bombs, blown bodies, etc,etc) and the brief laconic news on CNN or FOX: "An other car bomb exploded in Irak! 20 deads and 30 wounded!" This way, we can "eat" the war. But, before "fighting for freedom" and keeping invading countries, there are images you have to see. Just, let's say, ... to get use to it. But, again, you mist my point: forget about the text and watch the videos... This is the reality for the people that die, kill and live there... Not the short, laconical and somehow pathetical remarks "we will prevail".

And about the beheadings... I think that this is the manouver of the American policy to disscreditate any resistence in Iraq : all the insurgents are killers, they behead peoples, etc... And , as we can see , they succeded ...

As Chandernagore said there are many fractions in Iraq, fighting with their different means and tactics... You're making a mistake by generalizing...

You're right... You can not expect to see a news channel or a newspaper or a governement or some agency that knows "all the truth and nothing but the truth"
You have to see what's beyond and on the other side. And I think that this is the American sin (let's say the present administration): to level the others in the name of their (???)values...

This post has been edited by johnny_bi on December 15, 2004 02:08 am

Some people say that it is a puppet democracy... And about old-fashioned... This time we talk about some other kind of war and fighters. One American general said that the leader of the terrorists (I do not talk here about insurgents - Moqtada Al Sadr - by the way, did his men beheaded somebody?) is diabolical inteligent - using the most efficent weapon - the fear... And I do not remember about Al-Zarkawi signing any Geneva Convention...
But you talk about WWII ... Well, let's do not talk about WWII and talk about some other wars - the mongols' invasions - thanx God there was no camera that period of time . . This is a war between different cultures.

This post has been edited by johnny_bi on December 15, 2004 02:22 am

So, in Falluja, the Americans killed some 1,200 terrorists or insurgents or whatever that had as hoby - the beheading ... ... Ok, I got it...

Surprising statement coming from you, Chandernagore. You don't need to be an economist to know that:

1. The US economy has been and continues to improve. The market is up, new jobs are up, production is up, unemployment is down, etc....
2. The devaluation of the dollar in front of the Euro is quite advantageous to the US since it stimulates exports. It would only become a negative factor if it spun out of control, which it has not.

If you've read statements from Iraki civilians in Fallujah, then you'll know that they all referred to well-organized, well-armed "foreigners" who patrolled and controlled the town.

About your Fox News comment in which you correct their numbers single-handedly, should we all watch CNN instead? Do you think they're objective? Have you bothered to read some of Ted Turner's whacky statements? He is openly anti-american, let alone anti-republican. Not to mention his wife, "Hanoi" Jane Fonda who during the Vietnam war visited the North Vietnamese and talked about how unjust the americans were in that war. This is the couple who owns CNN. And we're supposed to take their news seriously?