Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update

In games, i prefer PPS weapon. My phader use it in military service (ZB and SKS rifle, and a short period Kalasnikov) and he was also impressed about PPS, and about a big column of tanks with red star when... in an joint application he was with flags in a crossroad with another coleague. Commander of the column laughed when see those soldiers scaried and not using the flags. He make a gift... some vine and vodka for "courage" and ... back to first idea, PPS had a lot of ammo. Is like you have no worries for ending ammo from clip. Is my preffered weapon wen i play ww2 or Vietnam game.


Iama

Indeed, it hasn't yet. I guess it all depends how long the Asians are willing to buy dollars and keep it artificially afloat, so that the US can keep on going with it's mind boggling foreign deficit. I sure hope the ball remains inside play limits as long as possible, for our economies are so intermingled that when one falls the other is likely to stumble. But I make no illusions, what is really needed is a cure, not a placebo.

I don't know, how much trust should we put in understandably partisan US media outlets ? My main sources of information are British, Canadian, Australian etc...

Tell me, how many of those legions of foreign fighters streaming across the frontier were captured during that huge fight in Fallujah ? Doesn't it bother you, not seeing those columns of foreign POWS being herded toward the rear areas under the greedy cameras of Fox Nexs ?

Your foreigners are just a red herring, Mabadesc. They exist essentially for use in the internal US market of news consumers. Rest assured that your military fully knows the extent of the fraud. The "foreigners" are politically needed to change the term "occupyer" into the more acceptable "liberator".

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 15, 2004 10:11 am

There's this detail, that I consider that killing unarmed, unsuspicious civilians just for the goal of terrorizing them, is terrorism. Not "fighting for freedom". Plus, I never saw happy faces around the scene of a suicide car bomber in Iraq, noone shouting anything enthusiastic or supportive of the "freedom fighters".

Sorry, where did you get that idea from? Met Zarqawi (oh, he's jordanian you know, not an iraqi) lately and heard him complain that the friendly, peaceful and democratic Syria and Iran won't move a finger to help his "patriotic" insurgency enough?

A couple of observations (that are equally valid for others in this forum): when you recommend some informations, make sure you know what they actually contain (I have a strong suspicion that at least in this case, you don't). It's a sign of respect for the others. Just as it's a sign of my respect for you, to actually go and check the info you recommended (which, as will be seen below, I have).

On topic now: not only the poll you linked to was 10-months old, but it was also seriously flawed (actually, perhaps the polling was accurate but its description was badly distorted).

Here's what the URL you gave says towards the end:
"Only 7% in the poll say they based their opinions on personal experience.
Instead, Iraqis get their information from others. For about a third, it's pan-Arabic television such as the Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya satellite news channels".

So if anything, the poll should NOT be titled "what iraqis feel about the US presence in Iraq" but rather "what the the iraqis are told by Al-Jazeera that's happening in their country".

Oh, and about the tanking of the $ and the consecutive and unavoidable collapse of the US economy: dont bother to tell me unsubstantiated fairy tales on this subject, I've been exposed to such fiction works during half my adult life, daily on the "Telejurnal".

As far as I'm concerned, you'd gain some credibility if instead of wishful thinking you'd use actual numbers and figures in a comparative context. Such as the difference right now in unemployment rate between the US and EU pillars like France or Germany (5% and shrinking vs. 9-10% and growing). Or last year's GDP growth in the US vs. the same two european ones (3% vs. 1-1.5%).

PS: oddly enough, the USA was and still is recovering from the 9/11 economical aftermath, which can't be said about any EU member state. And one can only wonder why there are so many doom predictions for the USA but none for the Bruxelles Neo-USSR.

Of course you're not a "partisan of Iraqi freedom". It shows. Not only that, but I think you're no partisan of freedom at all, anywhere. Of course you don't care about the fate of the people there. It shows. What is weird is that you feel that everyone else shares your attitude, but is hypocritical about it. I'd say that verges on paranoia. For instance, I really sympathize with the iraqis. I lived in a tyranny and know what freedom is and how expensive it can be. I remember how confused Romanians were back in 1990, and how parts of their confusion still persist. And Ceausescu wasnt by any means the ghoulish madman that Saddam was!
And that's why I absolutely pity the poor people - both Iraqi and non-Iraqi (Margaret Hassan, Ken Bigley, anyone?) - that get killed every day like sacrificial lambs at the hands of ruthless Saddam and foreign thugs, just so that the coalition countries in Iraq get scared and run leaving behind the thugs in control of one of the richest countries on Earth. And I think that aside from your favorite "major world powers" and their totalitarian lackeys, there are plenty of people on this planet that care about democracy in Iraq.

Actually, two major world powers stepped in this adventure. Numerous others not-so-major-but-significant-anyway are there too. The rest of the major world powers that didn't step in stood out because they weren't willing to topple their best and most trusted client.

Recommended google search string: un annan oil for food corruption iraq. The sum involved: 20+ billion $.

No comment. Really.

Regards,

valachus

This post has been edited by valachus on December 15, 2004 02:18 pm

Well, you seem to be very well informed... Could you tell us what are your sources because until now you attacked everything and everybody without pointing something else... any sources for your allegations... something ? Or you are just testing some kind of "skills" in making people beleive they are wrong?

Again , you generalize the matter of terrorism . Have you ever asked yourself that maybe not all "terrorists" are actually terrorists? Why Moqtada Al-Sadr is not charged with beheadings, etc? Or is he a repented terrorist?
What about collateral damages? These are excusable, right ?

Let me guess... You hate France .
You forget that even US is a collection of states that unified... During that time there were some other "super powers" in the world ... Don't forget that history repeat itself and some other powers may emerge while some other today powers may "slow down" and "regress"... Don' t be so categoric...

Well, I thought that this thread was supposed to welcome people and confrount their ideas. But you just continued to attack people . Without any source or something else you're just attacking people ... And this is hypocrisy.

I lived too in that systeme but I think that Saddam could have the same fate like Ceausescu - without external help, especially after First Gulf War...

Well, you have to decide yourself. Is the coallition fighting for freedom or for something else...

You should read more about ... And why this attack "happened".

At least try to read the whole phraze... Again, was Moqtada Al-Sadr charged with crimes? You refused to answer the question...

My contribution to this thread ends here... Anyway I say that some people don't like the exchange of idea and this is sad... The fact that I do not agree with your ideas is not an excuse for personal attacks...

This post has been edited by johnny_bi on December 15, 2004 02:40 pm

For the first,yes,i agree,to behead people is a crime(especially inocent people),or blow up civilians ,but,here is 3 problems: 1-this peoples know the danger,nobody kidnaped from their countries and transporting him with force in Irak. 2-this psihological war style work,the philipinese troops go home from Irak,the spanish and polish troops will go out imediatly after same named "free elections"who never start. 3-none of the beligerants is "cleane".The US and even UK army make war crimes,or broke the international law.Even this war(and especially ocupation) is quite illegal,acording with international law.Some people say the war was startet because Sadam begining the sell the oil in euro,not in dollars,like a represion measure against US and shes allies embargo against Irak,and afected US economy and help UE.This is the reason for France and Germany refuse the participation to war and was against war.Betwen UE and US is a economic war,and Europe try to escape from US hegemony and become again the most important power on earth,even just economically for moment. About the american soldier who use an PPSh 41 SMG,is verry interesting.I know this is a verry reliable weapon,even much reliable than AK,use a 71 rounds drum magazine,but dont have same efective range and power as AK.But in close combat is probably still verry good.In 70` and even 80`our "Patriotic Guards" still used this weapon.

Fine, but you didn't attempt to answer the question, you dodged it. Anyway. It's not how you consider this or that but how they consider it that can lead to some additional understanding of the situation.

I see. Another case of setting the other guy to prove a negative, isn't it ? Why does it remind me of the WMD trick, I wonder. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I cannot and I do not have to prove that there are few or no foreign fighters. Those who pretend that they are tens of thousands should have an easy time showing it and the burden of the proof is on them.

Very true. I will add one : when you suspect somebody, make sure you're right

To be fair you can always criticize any poll by playing on large range of factors. No poll is critic free, this one is no exception. However I've never heard a poll in the US being criticized on the ground that it was only representative of CNN or NBC information. Good try. The Irakis don't think by themselves at all. The insurgeants must learn from Al-Jazeera that they are currently fighting the true foreigners. Doh...

You'd better take a closer look at how those numbers are calculated. You could find out that your're comparing apples and oranges.

Fair enough. So I will predict one, admittedly based on David Flemings' insightfull and thorough analysis in "Prospect":

At some point during this century the notion of market economy and growth as we know it will simply vanish in the maelstroem of oil/gas depletion. It will not go down peacefully but in anger, with countries competing fiercely to the last remaining well. The more dependant a country is on it's transportation system, the harder it will be struck. The only country estimated to be able to increase production due to untapped, high quality oil reserve on the planet is ... hold your breath .... Irak.

Welcome aboard.

http://www.feasta.org/documents/feastareview/fleming.pdf

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 15, 2004 07:45 pm

And I who thought that this topic had cooled down and won't create any more problems like it did in the past. There is no need for insults. If you can't discuss in a civilized manner, I can temporary ban people so that they can think it over, but I don't like doing it. So cool down, all of you!

Regarding the US vs. EU economies, Valachus took the words right out of my mouth, but I'll repeat his statement anyway:

The only thing I can add to his statement is to advise you (Chandernagore and Johnny-bi) to be more concerned with your countries' economic status. God knows both the EU and Romania have larger and more acute problems with their economies.

Chandernagore wrote:

Pray tell, Chandernagore, on what basis do you make your claims? You are engaging in conspiracy theories here....

You're the one making claims not me. You're among those telling us of all those "foreigners" fighting in Irak to deprive the poor Irakis of their liberty.

So where are they ? Show them to me. Pictures, POWs, interviews ? Anything...
In spite of what the Great Leader told us when playing carrier landing there has just been another major combat operation in Fallujah. Where is the enemy ?
I don't believe he has retreated into the jungle.

Victor, I don't think there has been insults or barbarian behaviour here lately. A little hot perhaps but so is the subject.



This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 16, 2004 08:20 am

Actually this is my last contribution to the thread

http://www.resursadefun.ro/imagini/geografie.jpg

(from www.resursadefun.ro)
We didn't know that in fact we live in Czech Republic, being neighbours to the Irakis... CNN unbiased...

This post has been edited by johnny_bi on December 16, 2004 12:59 pm

Hehe. Yes, of course. We should make Irak (and it's oil) a member of the European union and quietly ask the US to leave.

Stay with us Johnny. There's more fun to come in this folder before the end...

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 16, 2004 06:18 pm

Pictures? Do you really want nothing less than "patriotic insurgents" in Iraq having armbands with their native country's flags on them? Corpses? Dead men tell no tales. Interviews? Well, there you have Zarqawi, the Jordanian, chanting, threatening and chopping heads off on TV on a weekly basis.
But, in addition to these trivial details, this neat INTER-NET thingy gives me a remarkable easy time finding truly remarkable hard evidence in support of my statements. Check this out:

Unfortunately, vacation's coming up and I won't have too much access to this remarkable INTER-NET thing in order to further solve your dillemas and answer your yet unanswered questions. But I'll be right back here, after New Year's eve. Unless the Apocalypse doesn't come first!

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!

valachus.

This post has been edited by valachus on December 17, 2004 01:03 am

It's quite embarassing to point it out to you, but I really can't help but do it (because it's fun like hell):

a ) the photo is a crudely photoshopped joke, actually (zoom over the "iraq" text and you'll see the bright green pixelation "fingerprint" of photoshopping

b ) the caption correctly presents Nastase as the Romanian prime-minister

c ) most likely the screen capture was taken during the NATO Prague summit, at
which Nastase was present since Romania was the most important country invited to join the Alliance on that occasion.

There, knock yourself off

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