Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (62) « First ... 60 61 [62]   ( Go to first unread post ) Closed TopicStart new topicStart Poll

> Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update
Iamandi
Posted: February 07, 2005 09:45 am
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1386
Member No.: 319
Joined: August 04, 2004



Breaking news tongue.gif


Iraqi Air Force Receives Helicopters


Source: US Central Command


"TAJI, Iraq --- Iraqi air force officials welcomed the arrival of two UH-1H Huey helicopters Feb. 1 to Taji Air Base.

The completely refurbished helicopters will provide airlift support and important troop-moving capabilities for the growing Iraqi air force command. A gift from Jordan, this is the first in a series of scheduled deliveries to occur during the next 12 months.

A total of 16 UH-1H aircraft are slated to arrive in Iraq by February 2006. The Iraqi flag is displayed on the fuselage of both aircraft.

According to Wing Commander Rad Greene, Royal Air Force, “It is an exciting time for the Iraqi air force as they re-enter the world of rotary wing aviation.”

Iraqi air force officials are genuinely excited about the prospect of operating these new aircraft, Greene said. The first eight aircraft will comprise Squadron 2 and the second eight aircraft will become Squadron 4, both based at Taji.

Currently, 14 Iraqi pilots are fully trained and awaiting additional flight instruction from their U.S. advisory support team (AST) pilots. Flight training will continue for the next several months until all 48 Iraqi pilots are certified. In the meantime, maintenance training will commence for the engineers and ground crews. "


Iama
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:16 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



Hueys, wow, the junkyard from Vietnam tongue.gif
PM
Top
Iamandi
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:18 am
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1386
Member No.: 319
Joined: August 04, 2004




Yeah, Huey for Irak, and maybe F - 16 for Romania! Thanks Uncle Sam!


Iama
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:25 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



Inquisition – Same old methods, same old results

Mr. Rasul was one of three young men, all friends, from the British town of Tipton who were among thousands of people seized in Afghanistan in the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. They had been there, he said, to distribute food and medical supplies to impoverished Afghans.

Under extreme duress at Guantánamo, including hundreds of hours of interrogation and long periods of isolation, the three men confessed to having been in a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. They also said they were among a number of men who could be seen in a videotape of Osama bin Laden. The tape had been made in August 2000.
For the better part of two years, Mr. Rasul and his friends, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmed, had denied involvement in any terror activity whatsoever. But Mr. Rasul said they eventually succumbed to long months of physical and psychological abuse.
The three men, all British citizens, were saved by British intelligence officials, who proved that they had been in England when the video was shot, and during the time they were supposed to have been in Al Qaeda training camps. All three were returned to England, where they were released from custody.


Bob Herbert - New York Times

Full article

The reliability of any information obtained by using torture can again be witnessed in all it's splendor.

However, I have no doubt that Valachus will explain to us how torturing people for the crime of humanitarian aid helped save American innocents from terrorist attack. Moreover it was enjoyable.

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on February 07, 2005 10:29 am
PM
Top
valachus
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:33 am
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 79
Member No.: 125
Joined: October 20, 2003



QUOTE (Chandernagore @ Feb 7 2005, 02:03 AM)


US innocents are worth 10 times other innocents apparently  huh.gif

I think we stumbled on an Abu Graib supporter who obviously believes that there wasn't any "bad apples" there, just day after day ordinary stuff.

But, well I'm sure it doesn't bother you as long as there is some torture opportunity to make your day.


"US innocents" LOL yess, I musst be an eevil american neo-con (and a Jew too, perhaps?), for it iz absurd zat ze splendid propaganda machinery of ze European Union has malfunctioned when brainwashing me! For zis is impossible!

And, in case you wonder, yes, I had to take cosmetic surgery in order to repair the forked tongue I was born with. It was just a tad too obvious.

However, may I remind you and the others reading this that so far dozens of Romanians have been killed in terrorist attacks in the last 5 years or so, in Israel, at WTC and Madrid? Dozens of others were crippled for life. Kids were left orphan, and why? What was the reason for their death? They were honest, hard-working people who hadn't harmed or threatened the lives of anyone, ever. They were however targeted and killed just for being at hand, along with thousands others. "The more, the merrier" goes the saying that could easily be taken as a motto by muslim terrorists.

Could at least a part of those deaths been prevented? Of course it could. The first thing that pops into my mind is the laxity of the Spanish intelligence and police, prior to 3/11, in the context of explicit al-qaida threats. But hey, Chandernagore and others, many many others, could and would have taken offence and would have protested an aggressive pursuit of islamic terrorism in Europe. "We are your friends, we come in peace and we protest American interventions in Afganistan and Iraq! So pliiiiiz don't bomb us, OK?"

Thus, Abu-Ghraib was a stupid, pointless display of low-level prison guards acting out their sick sexual obsessions. And they were put behind bars for long years and with good reason. This aspect somehow evades the minds of "progressive-thinking" people, who seem to believe that a) pulling panties over prisoners' heads was ordered by The Great Satanic Leader Bush himself, and cool.gif while those prison guards deserved to have been stoned to death or killed by some other really painful manner (unlike their prisoners, of course), they were in fact cleared of any charge.

However, below is a list of some of the people who in my book were more than worthy of some medieval questioning, if taken alive and reluctant to cooperate fully with the intelligence officers. And if anyone knows of videotapes or DVDs with the respective investigative sessions on sale, please notify me!


Name: Yasser al-Sirri
Function: al-Qaeda spokesman
Status: Arrested in the UK in October 2001

Name: Rifa Ahmed Taha
Function: Gamaa al-Islamiyyah leader, al-Qaeda third-in-command
Status: Unconfirmed reports state that he was arrested in Damascus in October 2001 and extradicted to Egypt, where he was summarily executed by the Egyptian authorities

Name: Juma Namangani
Function: Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan leader; top commander of Taliban forces at Taloqan
Status: Dead as a result of injuries sustained during the Battle of Mazar-e-Sharif in November 2001

Name: Mohammed Atef
Function: al-Qaeda military chief
Status: Killed a US airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001

Name: Imad Yarkas
Function: European operations chief
Status: Arrested by Spanish authorities in November 2001

Name: Ali Saleh al-Marri
Function: US operations chief
Status: Arrested by US authorities in December 2001

Name:Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi
Function: Head of al-Qaeda training infrastructure in Afghanistan; Khalden camp commander
Status: Captured while attempting to flee across the Pakistani border in December 2001

Name: Mohammed Salah
Function: al-Qaeda facilitator
Status: Killed in a US airstrike in December 2001

Name: Tariq Anwar al-Sayyid Ahmad
Function: senior Egyptian Islamic Jihad leader
Status: Killed in a US airstrike in February 2002

Name: Abu Jafar al-Jaziri
Function: senior aide to Abu Zubaydah
Status: Killed in a US airstrike in February 2002

Name: Antar Zouabri
Function: GIA leader
Status: Killed by Algerian security forces in February 2002

Name: Omar ibn al-Khattab
Function: Islamic International Brigade leader
Status: Assassinated through a poisoned letter in March 2002

Name: Abu Zubaydah
Function: Global operations chief
Status: Captured in Pakistan in March 2002

Name: Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi
Function: Al-Qaeda training camp commander
Status: Captured by US forces in April 2002

Name: Abu Zubair al-Haili
Function: Senior al-Qaeda recruiter
Status: Captured in Morocco in June 2002

Name: Omar Farouk
Function: Top al-Qaeda representative to Jemaah Islamiyyah
Status: Captured in June 2002 in Malaysia

Name: Abu Sabaya
Function: Abu Sayyaf spokesman
Status: Killed by US-backed Filippino troops in June 2002

Name: Ramzi Binalshibh
Function: Hamburg cell leader; member of the military committee after 9/11
Status: Captured in Pakistan in September 2002

Name: Wan Min Wan Mat
Function: KMM/JI financier
Status: Arrested by Malaysian authorities in September 2002

Name: Saif al-Islam al-Masri
Function: al-Qaeda ruling council member
Status: Captured by US-backed Georgian forces in October 2002

Name: Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri
Function: Top al-Qaeda naval commander; Persian Gulf operations chief
Status: Captured in the UAE in October 2002

Name: Abu Qatadah
Function: Al-Qaeda spiritual leader in Europe
Status: Arrested in the UK in October 2002

Name: Qaed Sinan al-Harethi
Function: Red Sea operations chief
Status: Killed by a US Predator drone in November 2002

Name: Imam Samudra
Function: Bali bombing mastermind
Status: Arrested by Indonesian authorities in November 2002

Name: Ali Gufron
Function: JI senior leader
Status: Arrested by Indonesian authorities in December 2002

Name: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Function: 9/11 mastermind, head of the military committee upon the death of Atef
Status: Captured in Pakistan in March 2003

Name: Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi
Function: al-Qaeda treasurer; 9/11 paymaster
Status: Captured in Pakistan in March 2003

Name: Mohammed Omar Abdel Rahman
Function: al-Qaeda military commander
Status: Captured in Pakistan in March 2003

Name: Yasser al-Jaziri
Function: al-Qaeda financier
Status: Captured in Pakistan in March 2003

Name: Christian Ganczarski
Function: Djerba synagogue bombing mastermind
Status: Arrested by Saudi authorities in April 2003

Name: Abu Taisir
Function: Al-Qaeda WMD expert
Status: Killed by US cruise missile attack in northern Iraq in April 2003

Name: Tawfiq Attash Khallad
Function: South Asia operations chief
Status: Captured in Pakistan in April 2003

Name: Ammar al-Baluchi
Function: Pakistan operations chief
Status: Captured in Pakistan in April 2003

Name: Abu Rusdan
Function: JI ideologue
Status: Arrested by Indonesian authorities in April 2003

Name: Safwan ul-Hasham
Function: communications expert
Status: Captured in Pakistan in May 2003

Name: Saifullah Yunos
Function: JI explosives and WMD expert
Status: Arrested by Filippino authorities in May 2003

Name: Khalid Jehani
Function: Saudi Arabia operations chief
Status: Served as one of the suicide bombers in the first Riyadh bombings in May 2003

Name: Karim Mehdi
Function: al-Qaeda facilitator
Status: Arrested by French authorities in June 2003

Name: Yousef al-Ayyeri
Function: al-Qaeda ideologue
Status: Killed in a gunfight with Saudi authorities in June 2003

Name: Ali al-Farqasi al-Ghamdi
Function: Saudi Arabia operations chief
Status: Surrendered to Saudi authorities in July 2003

Name: Hambali
Function: Southeast Asia operations chief; Jemaah Islamiyyah operations chief
Status: Captured in Thailand in August 2003

Name: Zubayr al-Rimi
Function: Al-Qaeda commando leader
Status: Killed in Saudi Arabia in September 2003

Name: Abu Mohammed
Function: Islamic Movement of East Turkestan (IMET) leader
Status: Killed in Pakistan in October 2003

Name: Ahmed Said al-Khadr
Function: al-Qaeda financier and ruling council member
Status: Killed in Pakistan in October 2003

Name: Tawfiq Rifqi
Function: JI Philippines leader
Status: Captured by Filippino police in October 2003

Name: Fathur Rehman al-Ghozi
Function: JI explosives expert
Status: Killed by Filippino troops in October 2003

Name: Aso Hawleri
Function: Ansar al-Islam military commander
Status: Captured by US forces in Iraq in October 2003

Name: Abderrazak al-Mahdjoub
Function: European recruiting chief
Status: Arrested by German authorities in November 2003

Name: Hassan Ghul
Function: al-Qaeda liaison to al-Tawhid
Status: Captured by Kurdish peshmerga in northern Iraq in January 2004

Name: Ruslan Gelayev
Function: Special Purpose Islamic Regiment leader
Status: Dead as a result of wounds suffered during a battle with Russian forces in Dagestan in January 2004

Name: Abu Mohammed Hamza
Function: al-Tawhid explosives expert
Status: Killed by US troops in Fallujah in February 2004

Name: Khalid Ali al-Hajj
Function: Saudi Arabia operations chief
Status: Killed in Saudi Arabia in March 2004

Name: Jamal Zougam
Function: 3/11 mastermind
Status: Arrested by Spanish authorities in March 2004

Name: Sarhane bin Abdel-Majid Fakhet
Function: Spain operations chief
Status: Committed suicide rather than be taken prisoner in April 2004

Name: Abd al-Aziz al-Muqrin
Function: Saudi Arabia operations chief
Status: Killed in Saudi Arabia in June 2004

Name: Musabir Aruchi
Function: Pakistan operations chief
Status: Captured in Pakistan in June 2004

Name: Rabei Osman Ahmed
Function: European operations chief
Status: Arrested by Italian authorities in June 2004

Name: Nabil Sahraoui
Function: GSPC leader
Status: Killed by Algerian security forces in June 2004

Name: Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan
Function: communications chief
Status: Captured in Pakistan in July 2004

Name: Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani
Function: al-Qaeda facilitator
Status: Captured in Pakistan in July 2004

Name: Qari Saifullah Akhtar
Function: Harakat ul-Jihad-e-Islami leader
Status: Captured in the UAE in August 2004

Name: Fazlur Rehman Khalil
Function: Harakat ul-Mujahideen leader
Status: Captured in Pakistan in August 2004

Name: Mustaqim
Function: JI military commander
Status: Arrested by Indonesian authorities in August 2004

Name: Habib Aktas
Function: Turkey operations chief
Status: Killed in a US airstrike in Iraq in September 2004
PMUsers Website
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:48 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



QUOTE
Thus, Abu-Ghraib was a stupid, pointless display of low-level prison guards acting out their sick sexual obsessions


QUOTE
below is a list of some of the people who in my book were more than worthy of some medieval questioning


Oh, make up your mind Valachus. Was it a usefull mistake, a worthless policy or do you simply enjoy it ?

PM
Top
valachus
Posted: February 07, 2005 10:53 am
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 79
Member No.: 125
Joined: October 20, 2003



QUOTE (Chandernagore @ Feb 7 2005, 12:25 PM)
Inquisition – Same old methods, same old results

However, I have no doubt that Valachus will explain to us how torturing people for the crime of humanitarian aid helped save American innocents from terrorist attack. Moreover it was enjoyable.

This touching story got to me inner feelings mate. I even shed a tear, you know. However I came back to my usually sadic self when I read these:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1786401.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/stor...40612%2C00.html

QUOTE
Shafiq Rasul was supposed to be on a course in Pakistan
Mr Iqbal's family has refused to comment.

But the picture being painted by the family of Mr Rasul is very different to US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's description of the captives as among the most vicious killers in the world.

Both Shafiq and Asif studied at the Alexandria High School and Sixth Form Centre and lived streets away from each other in Tipton.

Shafiq's family describe him as a shy, "westernised", Black Country lad who cannot even speak Punjabi properly.

He went to college every day and showed little support for the Muslim community in Tipton.

His family says he did not take part in the Pakistani community events and rarely attended the local mosque, even at key dates in the Muslim calendar.

He could have been brainwashed and taken over there to fight

When Islamic extremists were blamed for the 11 September atrocities in the United States, Shafiq is said to have condemned the attacks.

He travelled to Pakistan in October, apparently for a Microsoft computer course as it was cheaper than doing it in the UK.


Friends believe Iqbal also went to Pakistan with his family, possibly to arrange a marriage, when he too disappeared. His mother, Imtiaz, said: "I just want my son to come home. He is not a terrorist. I do not know why he is being held."

Two other young men from the estate, Munir Ali, 21, and Ruhal Ahmed, 20, are also believed to be missing in Afghanistan.


Sooo, mr attorney for the defense, these bums who had no money for a computer training course in the UK or enough clout to get a wife there and had to go shopping for one back in Pakistan (and simultaneously, after the WTC attacks, may I remind you - how about that for a coincidence? gobsmacking stuff there) were in fact filantropists with a penchant for aiding taleban women in distress. And were so discreet about it that even their families had no idea. Regular Batman and Robin stuff there.
Touchy story, mate. Too bad it's so darn idiotic.

This post has been edited by valachus on February 07, 2005 10:59 am
PMUsers Website
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: February 07, 2005 11:19 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



Yes, Valachus. You don't need laws. You don't need stinking attorneys. You don't need proves. You don't shed tears. And torture rates very high on your morale value scale, which is lower than the water level in the toilet. That's the way of thugs throughout history.

Would you mind explaining how is Irak linked to 9/11 ? Let's laugh a bit to flush away the pestilence of your ideas.
PM
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: February 07, 2005 11:54 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



The road to Islamic republic....

Hojatul Islam Ali Abdulhakim Alsafi, the second most senior cleric of Iraq, in a letter to President George W Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, has adopted a threatening tone by stating that their refusal to let the Iraqis chose their own institutions would drag their countries into a battle they would lose. Needless to say, Alsafi was saying what Sistani wasn't saying directly and explicitly, but really meant to say.

Ehsan Ahrari - Asia Times


"Mission accomplished ! "

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on February 07, 2005 11:57 am
PM
Top
Iamandi
Posted: February 07, 2005 01:21 pm
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1386
Member No.: 319
Joined: August 04, 2004



Streets of Iraq are unsure... But, with an RPG, can you shot down a C-130? We will see this, in future...

Plan Reduces Risk for Truck Drivers in Iraq


Source: US Air Force


"SOUTHWEST ASIA --- Recently 250 additional U.S. truck drivers per week were removed from the dangerous roads of Iraq because of expanded air operations that deliver cargo directly from the United States to airfields in Iraq. This, combined with existing air operations, now removes about 1,280 convoy drivers per week from Iraqi roads.

Army Brig. Gen. Mark Scheid, who is in charge of U.S. Central Command’s Distribution and Deployment Operations Center has been working hard not just to get more truck drivers off Iraqi roads, but to get convoys off the roads where the risk is the highest.

“Ninety-one percent of all U.S. casualties occur in an area called the Sunni Triangle, so that is the area all logisticians were directed to turn their focus to reduce driver casualties,” General Scheid said.

“Many cargo operations were flying into airfields that were located in … the most dangerous areas of Iraq,” he said. “Truck convoys would then drive outward from these airfields across the most dangerous highways in the world in order to deliver supplies to the military forces. There had to be a smarter way to get supplies to our forces.”

Air Force officials increased the number of aircraft available to mitigate convoy operations, but, until now, the focus was not in the areas where truck drivers were facing their greatest threat.

Today, strategic airlift delivers cargo directly to several airfields capable of handling the large aircraft, officials said. A hub-and-spoke system has been established to re-fly cargo to smaller airstrips where C-130 Hercules aircraft can land, but more importantly, to locations where the largest concentration of military forces are assigned.

These initiatives have not eliminated all trucks on the roads within the Sunni Triangle, but air support has certainly mitigated the threat for at least 250 more truck drivers per week that once traversed the most dangerous roads in the world, officials said. "

Iama
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Iamandi
Posted: February 07, 2005 01:27 pm
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1386
Member No.: 319
Joined: August 04, 2004



Military Vehicles in Iraq Get Up-Armored by Feb. 15


Source: US Department of Defense


"WASHINGTON --- Insurgents will have a tougher time targeting U.S. troops riding in Humvees and other vehicles in Iraq come Feb. 15.

That's when, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told CNN interviewer Larry King Feb. 3, "there will not be a vehicle moving around in Iraq anywhere outside of a protected compound that does not have the appropriate armor."

Speaking to King from the Pentagon via a video hookup, Rumsfeld noted that specialists had been flown into Iraq in recent weeks to attach shipped-in supplemental armor to various U.S. military vehicles.

Rumsfeld praised U.S. military planners for adjusting to the insurgents' hit- and-run tactics, noting "there is no line of battle in an insurgency."

The U.S. military in Iraq, the secretary pointed out, has "provided force protection in a country and in an insurgency where there is no forward edge of the battlefield."

Rumsfeld also lauded the successful Iraqi elections held Jan. 30, noting Iraqi forces had provided security around 5,000 polling sites across the country.

Ongoing efforts to train and equip Iraqi army troops and police "are well along," Rumsfeld reported. U.S. troops would stay in Iraq "as long as needed, and not one day longer," he said.

Looking back, Rumsfeld praised the leadership of Army Gen. Tommy Franks, the now-retired former U.S. Central Command chief who quarterbacked the combat offensive that destroyed Saddam Hussein's military.

"The major combat operation (against Saddam) lasted a very short period of time," Rumsfeld recalled. "General Franks did a superb job, and his commanders were highly successful."

The secretary acknowledged that the absence of a northern front directed against Saddam's forces at the onset of hostilities in March 2003 probably contributed to the insurgency's staying power today. Turkish politicians had declined to allow U.S. troops to enter Iraq from Turkey, likely because polling had shown that the vast majority of Turks were against the idea.

"One of the things that didn't go right was we were not able to get the 4th Infantry Division in from the north through Turkey," Rumsfeld recalled. As a result, he noted, the Sunni Arabs living north of Baghdad who were Saddam's strongest supporters "didn't really ever experience the full power of the United States military."

Today, Sunnis angered at the passing of the deposed dictator's regime "are the ones that are fomenting this insurgency that exists in Iraq," the secretary pointed out. "The fact that we couldn't get that division in from the north was unfortunate, in my view," he said.

Baghdad capitulated on April 9, 2003, but today American, coalition and Iraqi forces continue to battle an insurgency made up of disgruntled Sunnis and anti- West Islamic radicals, including al Qaeda-affiliated mercenaries.

The insurgency has proven to be "more intense than had been anticipated," Rumsfeld acknowledged, but he noted he was heartened by the fortitude shown by the millions of Iraqis who voted in a democratic election regardless of insurgents' threats.

After enduring decades of oppression under Saddam, the Iraqis "still had courage," Rumsfeld observed, as well as "that natural human desire to be free."

The secretary also revealed that he offered his resignation to President Bush twice over the Abu Ghraib prison abuse situation. "I felt that he ought to make the decision as to whether or not I stayed on," Rumsfeld said. "And he made that decision and said he did want me to stay on. "


Iama
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
valachus
Posted: February 07, 2005 01:59 pm
Quote Post


Fruntas
*

Group: Members
Posts: 79
Member No.: 125
Joined: October 20, 2003



QUOTE (Chandernagore @ Feb 7 2005, 01:19 PM)
Yes, Valachus. You don't need laws. You don't need stinking attorneys. You don't need proves. You don't shed tears. And torture rates very high on your morale value scale, which is lower than the water level in the toilet. That's the way of thugs throughout history.

Would you mind explaining how is Irak linked to 9/11 ? Let's laugh a bit to flush away the pestilence of your ideas.

I thought you were already advised by moderators about personal attacks and trivial language. Well, when one's in dire lack of arguments I suppose insults can soothe one's ego. Or are you by any chance trying to have this topic locked again or even deleted from this forum? You wouldn't do that, would you?

On topic: Iraq was not "linked" to 9/11, it was the next step in the war on international muslim terrorism targeted at the USA and the West, and the last one the UN previously allowed for (more from negligence than intentionally). Because, see, not only had Saddam Hussein become all of a sudden a religious kind of guy since 1993 onwards, but he was a religious kind of guy with all sorts of terrorist connections. Thus 2003 Iraq was the 1st most popular travel destination for, and a generous friend of, muslim terrorists in the world (the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, the Iranian Mujahideen-e-Khalq, the Turkish PKK, the Abu Nidal Organization; the WTC I attack masterminds all passed or stayed in Iraq at various moments in time; Saddam Hussein was subsidizing suicide bombers in Israel ETC ETC ad nauseam. Mr. Zarqawi also happened to come to Iraq in the period PREVIOUS to the Coalition entering there - later Al-Zarqawi claimed credit for a score of attacks on coalition forces, including the August 19 2003 bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad that killed 23 civilians including the U.N.'s chief envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.).

About the WMD thing, now : not only did he have them, but he had used them previously, too. And the USA officials believed he had them, the UN believed he had them, the Russians believed he had them, the French believed he had them, the Germans believed he had them (hell, the Germans produced them, remember?)., etc. ad nauseam. Moreover, there is evidence aplenty that only the weapons embargo on Iraq stopped the further development of its nuclear program and of delivery means.

Now, see, besides these circumstances (there are other dictatorships in the world that have WMDs and terrorist ties, although truth be told, none other had used WMDs against its own citizens in post-WW II times) there was one that was paramount in the overthrow of Saddam's regime: there were numerous UN resolutions that asked that his regime disarms fully and provides proof of that (which he had not), and that his troops stop firing upon USA and UK aircraft (which he had not). And aside from that, the oil-for-food program only served the interests of Saddam & family, and of the UN high-priests and sycophants (the days of NGOs screaming their lungs out and sending human shields to protect the Iraqi people are long gone, albeit now would be the best time to step forward for them - why is that, i wonder? I asked you before, perhaps you forgot to answer.)

And what the UN hath said, thus hath been done.

Now, what exactly is morally wrong there? Enlighten me, and please, no mantras or insults but only explicit arguments, OK?

This post has been edited by valachus on February 07, 2005 02:03 pm
PMUsers Website
Top
Victor
Posted: February 07, 2005 02:25 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



As there is no prospect of a calm and civilized discussion here, the topic shall be locked, permanently.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (62) « First ... 60 61 [62]  Closed TopicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0256 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]