Romanian troops against Hungarian Red Army!??

Hello,
I tried to find the information on operations the Romanian and Hungarians during the Hungarian Soviet Republic in 1919-20. Can you prompt sites or books? Have you photos of those events?

The so-called 'Hungarian Republic of Council' lasted only several months in 1919. Fighting between Rumanian and Hungarian troops actually started earlier, in late November 1918.

Commissar Béla Kun (born Kohn) proclaimed on March 21, 1919 the Soviet-style Republic of Councils of Hungary, imposed a rule of red terror and formed a Red Army.

Eventually, the Hungarian Bolsheviks were thrown out on July 31, 1919, being defeated by the joint Rumanian-Czechoslovak and Serbian armies.
Budapest was occupied on August 3, 1919 by Rumanian troops, without a fight.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. I recommend using the search engine. You will find interesting threads, including this one:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...145&hl=bela+kun

This post has been edited by Dénes on August 17, 2006 09:20 pm

http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/history/hungary/hungintro.html

Thank you,
What about historical movies by this events?

I hava a question. What signs were used on to Bela Kun airforce? A black cross?

Thanks,

Iama

No, the five-point Red Star. After all, they were Communists.

Gen. Dénes

This is the joke of the year...

Im confused... Denes, five-point red star is a joke? Or i underestand wrong the post of Johnny_bi?

Iama

No, the red star is not a joke. Why would it be?

Gen. Dénes

I was confused by johnny_bi post.

Thank you, Denes!

Iama

Iama, ask Johnny about that.

Gen. Dénes

Hi,

Here is an article about a firefight in and around Zilah (Zilau?). This is not quite against the reds but the Székely Division (if I remember well). It is in Hungarian and I do not have the time to translate it right now but maybe some other H-speaker could make a summary.

Part 1
Part 2

Bye,
Krisz

In cursul lunii februarie 1919 au avut loc ciocniri armate între cele douã forte: armata de ocupatie maghiarã si detasamente izolate ale gãrzilor nationãle române refugiate la Brad. Acestea fãceau dese incursiuni în pãrtile Hãlmagiului. Deoarece comportarea trupelor maghiare fãcuse de nesuferit viata localnicilor, iar armata românã din Brad era in plinã organizare si nu putea încã interveni, un grup de circa 30 de gardisti din Hãlmãgel, actionând din proprie initiativã, în ziua de 30 martie 1919 a deschis foc asupra companiei maghiare stationatã în Hãlmagiu si a alungat-o. (vezi NOTA 17)
Între timp au loc ciocniri între detasamentele armatei maghiare de ocupatie si cele ale armatei romane. Astfel în ziua de 30 martie 1919 o baterie a armatei române, aflatã în satul Târnava de Cris, trage asupra trenului blindat maghiar care inaintase pana la Vata si care, fara sa mai riposteze s-a retras la Hãlmagiu, incident provocând panicã în armata de ocupatie si, alarmându-s întreaga garnizoanã a pãrãsit Hãlmagiul. (vezi NOTA 18)
În dimineata zilei de 31 martie 1919 colonelul Gheorghe Rasoviceanu comandantul regimentului de vânãtori din armata românã, aflatã in Brad, face o incursiune spre Hãlmagiu si fiind informat cã armata maghiarã se aflã în derutã se reîntoarce cu un automobil la Brad si punând regimentul în mars fortat, în dupamiaza aceleiasi zile, pe proprie rãspundere ocupã Hãlmagiul. A treia zi a sosit aici si generatul roman Mosoiu iar un avion al armatei române a aterizat lângã gara Hãlmagiu (vezi NOTA 19). De acum Halmagiul era sub protectia armatei române.
Dupã trei zile armata maghiarã s-a reîntors cu efective sporite, dar s-a oprit la câtiva kilometri in spatele Hãlmagiului, neîndrãznind sã întreprindã actiuni militare. Evenimentele se precipitã si armata maghiarã îsi concentreazã trupe masive în partea de apus si de nord a Hãlmagiului, iar in Brad se formeazã corpul de soldati voluntari români, numit "Horea". Din comuna Vârfuri (atunci numitã Ciuci), aflatã sub ocupatie maghiarã, se trag proiectile de artilerie asupra Hãlmagiului.
În prima jumãtate a lunii aprilie 1919 grosul armatei române se apropie de Hãlmagiu, pregãtindu-se de ofensivã pentru dezrobirea Crisanei, iar în dimineatia de 16 aprilie 1919, pe un front de circa 20 km. de la dealurile Gorgana, Hiread si pânã dincolo de Brusturi, s-au aflat fatã în fatã cele douã armate: de ocupatie si de eliberare. Armata românã declanseazã atacul si gurile de foc ale tunurilor, amestecate cu tãcãnitul cadentat al mitralierelor, rãspândesc groazã în întregul tinut (vezi NOTA 20). E o înfruntare pe viatã si pe moarte. Va birui armata care luptã pentru un tel just si are moralul mai ridicat. Dupã câteva ore vânãtorii colonelului Gheorghe Rasoviceanu strãpung frontul si urmãresc pe inamic pânã la Dealul Mare, unde se organizeazã o puternicã linie de apãrare. Aici are loc lupta decisivã în care batalionul Horea II, de voluntari, se acoperea de glorie, sfãrâmând rezistent inamicului (vezi NOTA 21) si astfel luptele pentru dezrobirea Crisanei continuã. Se elibereazã Vascãul, Beiusul si Oradea, iar la 4 august 1919 armata românã pune capãt acestui rãzboi ocupând Budapesta, integrând pentru totdeauna Transilvania, Crisana si Maramuresul la România.

17. Traian Mager, Contributii la istoria unirii 1918-1919, Jurnal. Tiparul Tipografiei diecezanã Arad, pag. 134
18. idem pag. 141
19. idem pag. 142
20. Traian Mager, Contributii la istoria unirii 1918-1919, Jurnal, pag. 164
21. idem pag. 184, 186

quoted from http://www.darnick.com/halmagiu/xx.html, where I collaborated for editing the text of Traian Mager.

In english translation, shortly:

In february 1919, hungarian army occupies Halmagiu. Romanian national guard retreats to Brad.
During february 1919, skirmishes between hungarian and romanian army around Halmagiu.
30th of March, 1919. Aproximately 30 romanian guardists from Halmagel villages opened fire against the hunagrian company from Halmagiu. The hungarians fled.
In the same day, a romanian artillery battery from Tarnava de Cris village opened fire against a hungarian armored train wich advanced at Vata. The train has retreated at Halmagiu.
31st of March 1919. Colonel Ghe. Rasoviceanu, comanding oficer of romanian chasseurs ("vanatori"), makes a incursion in Halmagiu, finding there that hungarian army is routed. He returns to Brad, take his regiment and occupy Halmagiu.
On the 3rd day at Halmagiu arrives general Traian Mosoiu, and a aeroplane of romanian army landed in same village.
On 16th of April 1919 romanian army begin the offensive, the romanian army having a artillery duel with hungarian artillery. (author's note).
The offensive ends at 4 august 1919 with the occupation of Budapest by romanian army.

Author's note:
My uncle, Lazar Alexandru (brother of my grandfather) told me the way that his father, Lazar Pavel (my grand-grandfather) lived the events.
On the map one can find Halmagiu, and taking the road towards Gurahont, it comes Varfurile (or Ciuci - the crossroad of Deva-Brad-Arad road with Oradea road), after that on the direction of Gurahont comes Aciua village (today Avram Iancu de Arad).
My grandfather is from Aciua.
One day before the romanian offensive (on 15th of April 1919), the romanians from Aciua was aware about the incoming romanian atack. In Aciua there it was a hungarian gendarme post, linked with the hungarian troops from Varfurile by telephone.
My grand-grand-grandfather, Lazar Vasile, fearing that hungarian troops could harm the romanian young peasants, tried to save his son, Lazar Pavel, who was age 22 in 1919. So, in the night preceeding the romanian atack, they both went out from the house and walked on the road, speaking one to each other in hungarian language, cos being dark it was hard for one to recognise who was they, but in the same time one could presume that they were hungarians and not alarm the hungarian troops. When they departed the village, beeing not intercepted by hungarians, Lazar Vasile returned home, while youngest Pavel joined other young romanians from Aciua at Magulicea village, where they stayed until romanian troops arived.
Pavel, on his route to Magulicea, stumbled upon the telephone wire who linked the garissons from Varfurile and Aciua. He took his knife and cut the wire.
On 16th of April, romanian artillery started to shoot at hungarians from Varfurile, being positioned at the hill Sortoc, at outskits of Halmagiu.
Romanian infantry opened the way toward Dealu Mare, routing the hungarian garison from Varfurile.
The hungarian garison from Aciua was also routed. It was captured an hungarian gendarme, who was hidden into a well. He was took to the light and latter shot on the valley of Tacasele.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on June 28, 2007 06:56 pm

Some words about communist hungarian leader Bella Kun.

Born in today's Cehu Silvaniei ( Szilagycseh), Salaj county??

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWkun.htm

For Denes,

I would like to be more precise regarding your resume on the short life of Bela Kun's regime - message from 2006.

"The so-called 'Hungarian Republic of Council' lasted only several months in 1919. Fighting between Rumanian and Hungarian troops actually started earlier, in late November 1918".

All history books show that the Romanian Royal Army entered Transilvania in late November and advanced WITHOUT ANY FIGHTING to the demarcation line imposed by the Allied Powers. The first battles were in 15/16th April 1919, when the Hungarian Red Army attacked, followed by Romanian counterattacks.


"Eventually, the Hungarian Bolsheviks were thrown out on July 31, 1919, being defeated by the joint Rumanian-Czechoslovak and Serbian armies.
Budapest was occupied on August 3, 1919 by Rumanian troops, without a fight."

All history books show in detail (including maps) the stages of the battles (of course, not continuous - there were some breaks, when the Hungarian Reds tried to manouever by attacking first the Romanians, afterwards the Czechs. There were no battles at all engaging the Serbian Army (or I do not remember well as they were very weak and under French umbrella). The last offensive of the Romanian Army was at the end of July-beginning of August 1919 after crossing the Theiss River, with fierce fighting. Only Budapest was captured on 3rd August without any fighting at all, because it was an open-city, and only thanks to the daring attitude of cavalry gen. Rusescu (later on punished for this by Gen. Mardarescu who entered Budapest with the main forces on 4th August 1919). If there is need for it, names and dates of important battles - step by step - can be provided to prove my comments.

Best regards

This post has been edited by mateias on December 08, 2007 10:37 am