WW1 - Romania and Bela Kun regime

Bela Kun's regime lasted less than 4 months but his policies made very clear to the West what can happen in their own countries if Communists come to power.
In Romania there are very few books dedicated to this matter. If possible, please provide information on it, following these directions:
1. Number and names of komissars. Their ethnic origins and if among them there are others born in Transilvania except Bela Kun himself.
2. What exactly happened to them when their boat capsized (how many stayed under Hortyh's regime and their position; how many were executed by Horthy; how many fled abroad - in Russia and other countries - and their positions there; how many went to fight in the Spanish Civil War in the international brigades; how many were executed by Stalin; how many resurfaced after WW2 in Hungary and their position in the 2nd Hungarian Communist regime; how many went to trial and executed by their Communist partners; how many became important in the West - names, positions, countries).
3. What truth may be on what is written on various foreign sites on a government made mostly of Hungarian Communist Jews killing ordinary Hungarian jews?
4. What was the strength of the First International Red Brigade, how many of the troops were Russians, and who commanded the troops.
5. Position of gen. Stromfeld, commander of Bela Kun's army, under Horthy's regime.
6. Number of casualties caused by the Red Terror, if possible divided between cities and rural areas.
7. Confirmation of Kun's being so depressed after his defeat that he went right into a Vienna mental hospital, and only afterwards to go to Lenin and Stalin.

Thank you in advance for any useful information.

This post has been edited by mateias on December 09, 2007 11:27 am

To properly answer your many questions it would require many hours of search of primary and secondary sources. I don't have the time, as I am currently working hard to conclude a book manuscript. However, if somebody else does, I will be happy to read the post and give my short comments.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. Out of curiosity, why did you include Rumania in the title, as none of your questions are related to Rumania.

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 09, 2007 01:16 pm

Frankly speaking, I did not expect Gen. Denes to be the first to reply but I try to satisfy his curiosity, hoping he will do the same for me.
1. Kun was born in Transilvania. It's quite possible other kommisars be also born in Transilvania. It's interesting to know their ethnicity (Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Jews, etc.). Some sources on the internet specify a government with 26 kommisars where 20 are Jews, without prividing names and positions/ministries.
2. Kun's army fought almost 4 months against Romanian army. It's quite possible that the Red Terror and Samueli's Lenin Boys commit atrocities like killing ordinary jews as well, not only Romanians, in the territory under their temporary control.
3. International Brigade fought against the Romanian army, so why not knowing more on these guys? Hemingway and Orwell became famous by writing and even fighting later in Spain. What happened to their troops after defeat? Maybe Horthy hired their services, like Stromfeld's, why not.
4. Stromfeld was Kun's commander of the Red Army, an army which fought against the Romanian army. Did Horthy make use of his and Kratochwill (Szekler Division) war experience? Did Stromfel write his memoirs (like Hindenburg, Ludendorf, Falkenhein and others)? If translated in English, they may be of interest for anyone. Was Stromfeld a pilot? If not, why there is now an airport named after him?
5. Sources say that Kun's depression after defeat led him directly to a Vienna mental hospital. There, the Austrian doctors turned him into the BUTCHER of 1920 in Ukraine. Firstly as the opportunist who broke the alliance signed by himself with Makhno and his Black Army to fight together against the Whites (consequently, the wounded Makhno had to flee to the West thru Romania). Secondly by negociating personally the surrender of Wrangel's remnants in Crimea with the fake promise of an amnesty and later ordering their massacre. Tens of thousands of war prisoners were exterminated by his "depression", plus over 60,000 of Russians, Tartars and orthodox priests. This guy was a real devil, worse than the Nazis in Warszaw of 1942 and 1944 !
6. In fact, I wonder what is your allegiance. Who do you really think was better for Hungary of those days: KUN BELA, HORTHY MIKLOS or maybe SZALASSI FERENC?
Personally, I believe that the Romanian army did a very good think FOR CENTRAL EUROPE, to dispatch him right to his "Russian coaches" (Lenin and his boys). It's a pity they could not get and hang him !

This post has been edited by mateias on December 09, 2007 07:07 pm

Lovely statues, including Bela Kun the Butcher, in a very special place recommended for tourists all over the world (the Statue Park). What a pity we have not yet ours, with Luca Laszlo, Nikolski, Pantiusa Bodnarenko and Alexandru Draghici kissing children's foreheads. Personally, I like the background: give power (electricity pylon) to the people !


http://photos.igougo.com/pictures-photos-r...0-Bela_Kun.html

This post has been edited by mateias on December 11, 2007 10:57 am

Just a few answers due to shortage of spare time.

Károly Kratochwill
Born at Kőszeg, on 13 Dec. 1869, died on 19 Sept. 1946.
Graduated the Austro-Hungarian Military Academy of Wiener Neustadt. Assigned to Kolozsvár (Cluj) in late 1918, as military commander of the region, having the rank of Brig.-Gen. Organized the Székely Hadosztály (Sekler Division), which fought fiercely against Rumanian troops. Laid down the arms in front of the Rumanian Army on 26 April 1919, after the Hungarian Red Army units had unexpectedly retreated from his flanks. Following being released from captivity, was named briefly as military commander of the Debrecen region in 1921. Further on, was named as director of the miltary museum in Budapest. Discharged from the Army in 1924.
So the answer to your question: no, Horthy did not make use of Gen. Kratochwill's war experience.

Aurél Stromfeld
Born on 19 Sept. 1878 – died on 10 Oct. 1927. He was a German ethnic.
Stromfeld was the Chief of Staff of the Hungarian Red Army and not a pilot. It's out of question that an airport in Hungary to bear his name nowadays. Perhaps a couple of streets still bear his name, streets that were 'forgotten'...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 11, 2007 04:05 pm

I return to my message of 9th December, unanswered.
In the northern sector of Theiss river fought the 80th International Brigade. Maybe someone can provide information on this brigade (commander, strength, countries of origin, etc.) and what happened to it after collapse of entire front by the end of July 1919.

This post has been edited by mateias on December 17, 2007 05:13 pm

On Bela Kun

http://www.geocities.com/veldes1/kun.html

[edited by admin]

1. There are official documents published by the Soviets (telegrams between Kun and Lenin).

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...96E9C946896D6CF

2. Bela Kun and his Cabinet run to Vienna and were protected by the workers as per this link. Maybe someone can provide a list of this Cabinet (members, positions).
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/...6CF&oref=slogin

3. I also find of interest what actually happened at Kun's trial in Vienna (new visit in 1928). Amazingly, instead of being extradited to Hungary he was deported to Russia.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...23473-1,00.html

[edited by admin]

This post has been edited by mateias on January 11, 2008 02:55 pm

Comments were deleted. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Please stick to the original topic.

I have deleted all off-topic discussion. This forum is for discussing history with a minimum of cold blood, not for attacking other members just because they have a slightly different opinion.

mateias, you are not the only one whose family suffered a lot during Communism. Most of us here have. Communism has to be exposed for the inhuman and perverting regime it was, but by doing it in a civilized manner. The cheap sarcasm, the lack of respect and tolerance for the opinion of others, however, means sinking to the same level as Communists. I advise you to control your temper.

This topic will remain open if the discussion continues on Bela Kun and Bela Kun only, with the posting of re;evant information.

At this link is an article on end of Bela Kun's regime.


http://www.hotnews.ro/arhiva/articol_12531...a_bela_kuhn.htm

There are some things maybe someone can clarify for me.
1. Attitude of gen. Smuts (he did not get off his armoured train and ordered instead that Kun comes to him, a possible explanation of the latter's refusal of Smut's generous proposal to move Eastern border with 30 km to the East).
2. Among possible reasons of losing popularity very quickly are mentioned nationalization, land reform and .... alcohol prohibition.
3. Is it true that Kun stated in his Council that 2 of his divisions had to be disarmed, just a few days before Romanian army entered Budapest, because they were drunk ?
4. Is is true that Romanian troops raised "opinca" (typical shoe/sandal worn by Romanian farmers) on top of Hungarian parliament ? Hungarian posters used to show Romanians wearing "opinca" with a derogatory meaning (80% of Old Romanian Kingdom lived in rural areas and 90% of Romanian army were peasants, wearing "opinca" and eating "mamaliga"/polenta). Romanian politicians and journalists mentions this as a true fact but I think it was only a legend if there is no such picture to prove it.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 12, 2008 08:10 am

At this link I found the answer to my 7th question in message dd. 9 Dec. 07.
Mr Tokes writes that Bela Kun was indeed held at an insane asylum in Vienna, but he probably needed further treatment and went back there in 1928.

http://www.questia.com/library/encyclopedia/kun_bela.jsp

I wonder if there are any films made in Hungary or somewhere else on Bela Kun's Soviet Republic and its outcome.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 11, 2008 03:08 pm

Has anybody info on possible profitable deals between Austria and Russia in order to release Bela Kun when he revisited Vienna in 1928, as per the article archived at this link ?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,785907,00.html

This post has been edited by mateias on January 11, 2008 04:03 pm

At least one source says that was true that "opinca" waved on the top of the Hungarian parliament: a group photo made for the guys who graduated "Avram Iancu" Liceum, class 1943.
Their motto was (take note, this action was in 1943 when we were on the same side of the baricade as Hungary, we were allied with Germany!!!), so their motto was:

"Noi ne legam cu juramant
Sa trecem Tisa-ntr-un avant
Si sa-mplantam opinca iar
Pe-acelas Parlament Maghiar".

The photo can be seen at http://www.taramotilor.ro/fotografii2.html , the second one from left to right, first row. Click on it to enlarge on the right side of the screen.

(please someone more gifted in translating poems in english to translate above )

So, it is very posible that the fact was true. These guys were the nephews of the men who fought their way thru Hungary in ww1.

That's no proof. Anyone can coin a 'motto' with any topics of his/her desire...

Gen. Dénes