Romanian units against Reds in Vienna, Activities,strength,leaders of Rom.units

Romanian units stationed in Vienna were the only regular army forces at the government's disposal for putting down Bolchevik-type actions leading to anarchy in Vienna. I would like to know more details and sources of information on this topic as it seems that at that time there were in Vienna over 5,000 Romanian troops formerly employed by the defunct Austro-Hungarian empire. Iuliu Maniu suceeded managed to bring to Vienna up to 120,000 Romanian troops. Who commanded these people? What happened to these troops afterwards, were they included in the Romanian Royal army or disbanded ? Are any western sources available on this matter (Vienna Soviet Republic and its fall)?


My only source (very limited) is at this Romanian link:
http://www.observatorul.com/articles_main....ewdetail&ID=333

This post has been edited by mateias on January 06, 2008 02:29 pm

I found this number very hard to believe. A corroboration from another source would be nice. Also an approx. date would be welcome.
Also, what made this troops officially (legally) 'Rumanian', as they apparently were not part of the regular Rumanian Army of the time?

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 06, 2008 02:54 pm

For Denes,
Better late ... than too late ! Happy New Year 2008 !
I also wonder about this topic. probably someone knowing more can help us. However, history of Regiment Orastie (a regular unit) might be the starting point. It's quite clear that at that time it belonged to the regular army of the former Austro-Hungarian empire.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 06, 2008 04:06 pm

In the situation of the collapse of AH empire in the fall of 1918 emperor Franz Joseph issued a proclamation which granted ex-AH military units the right to organise themselves on nationality basis.
So did the hungarians, so did the romanians from ex-AH units, so did the serbs, croatians and other nations and nationalities, as they were clasified by ex-AH authorities.
So, romanian units from Wien in 1918 were Romanian because they declared themselves ... Romanian, as being raised in proportion of 85 to 90% by romanians, ex-citisens of AH empire.

From memory, it was general Ioan Boeriu, knight of the Maria Theresa Order, who organized and commanded the Romanian soldiers in Vienna. I will have to doublecheck this though.

For Victor,
Yes, you are right. The site with history of the Romanian National Party from Transilvania mentions that Maniu imposed himself upon gen. Steiner, Austrian secretary of Defense, and together with gen. Boeriu and Moga put down Red anarchy in Vienna. This is the link.

http://www.corneliu-coposu.ro/articol/inde...national_roman/

Same things are mentioned by one of the most important Romanian historians, Dan Berindei, on this site.

http://www.casaromana.org/IM_DB.html

Dar în 1918, monarhia „din petice" a cunoscut un proces de disolutie, oferindu-se popoarelor ei captive prilejul eliberarii si al împlinirii visurilor celor mai îndraznete. Partidul National Român si-a reluat activitatea, iar Iuliu Maniu, simplu locotenent în Regimentul 64 Orastie, a intrat în luna octombrie pe usa cea mare a istoriei. În anarhia generalizata, el a fost factorul mobilizator si organizator al masei de soldati români aflate în capitala imperiului. Zeci de mii de ostasi au fost grupati sub conducere româneasca, comanda suprema fiind încredintata generalului Ioan Boeriu, iar ministrul de Razboi al monarhiei, generalul Stäger-Steiner, a fost bucuros de existenta acestui corp de oaste, care putea asigura ordinea. Maniu a obtinut birouri chiar în cladirea Ministerului de Razboi din Viena. Unitatile românesti aveau sa fie trimise spre Transilvania, constituind osatura militara a procesului de preluare a autoritatii de catre români ....

A free translation:
IULIU MANIU (future leader of Romanian National Party in Transilvania and later of National Peasant Party, the second most important party in inter-war period) was a lieutenant in Regiment 64 Orastie. OCTOBER 1918 is the moment when tens of thousands of Romanian soldiers in Vienna were grouped under a supreme Romanian commander (gen. Ioan Boeriu) and gen. Staeger-Steiner accepted their help to crush the Viennese Red soldiers' council and militia. MANIU was even granted offices in the Austro-Hungarian War Ministry building in Vienna. Later, the Romanian units will be dispatched to Transilvania, becoming the military bone system in the process of taking over authority by Romanians in that historical province.

PS. I checked on Google and it seems that Mr. Berindei made a small mistake: correct is Rudolf Freiherr von STOEGER-Steiner (instead of STAEGER) - born in 1861, dead in 1921.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 07, 2008 10:40 am

Iuliu Maniu (future leader of inter-war Romanian National Peasant Party) was officer in AH Regiment no. 64 Orastie
For history of this regiment, info in this book published in 2004.
"ISTORIA REGIMENTULUI cezar si regesc Nr. 64 ORASTIE" (1860 - 1918)" by Messrs. Dorin Petrescu and Ioan Lazarescu

Prior to the war, Iuliu Maniu (known as dr. Maniu Gyula) was also a deputy in the Hungarian Parliament in Budapest:
http://www.ogyk.hu/e-konyvt/mpgy/alm/al906_11b/165.htm

Gen. Dénes

P.S. I thought that k.u.k. is translated to Rumanian as 'cezaro-craiesc'...

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 10, 2008 09:56 pm

For Denes,
Sounds much better what you suggest. It reminds me of the Romanian border-guard regiments in Maria Theresa imperial army.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 11, 2008 04:00 pm

From another source (Pamfil Seicaru, Roumanie pendant la Grande Guerre, Paris, 1968):
"On 31. Oct. 1918, Maniu met 100 Romanian officers in Vienna and set up the Council of Romanian Military People .... Maniu and prof. Isopescu-Grecu, deputy in the Imperial Parliament in Vienna, met gen. Stroeger-Steiner, War Minister. They informed him that Maniu took command of the Romanian regiments and requested that part of the ministry's building be put at his disposal for services required by Romanian military affairs. The War Minister of the Hapsburg Empire was thus compelled to ascertain the existence of the Romanian army with its own commanding structure .... At Iuliu Maniu's disposal in Vienna was Regiment 64 Orastie (artillery), made of Romanian troops exclusively. The only foreign officer was its commander, an Austrian colonel, duly replaced by a Romanian officer. This regiment, with a strength of 5,000 well-disciplined troops, had barracks in Ferdinandskaserne, being moved there right before monarchy's fall in order to maintain order in Vienna (Austrian Republic was proclaimed on 17 Nov. 1918, one day after Karoly's Hungarian Republic). ... In an Empire close to collapse, the only troops not contaminated by Bolshevism were the Romanian regiments. A bolschevised Austrian regiment was plundering Vienna outskirts, local police being too intimidated to intervene and on the verge of being itself bolshevised. ... In this dramatic situation that allowed spreading of anarchy, a Romanian artillery lieutenant, Iuliu Maniu, supported at the War Ministry the defunct authorities.
At Wiener-Neustadt were found 40,000 Romanian troops and in the barracks around Vienna another 20,000. By adding to them the 5,000 from Ferdinandskaserne, this means a force of 65,000 disciplined troops able to contain anarchy and re-establish law and order. The Romanian troops paraded in Austrian uniforms, but their steps was set by a march sung in a foreign language, not in German. In November 1918, Romanian troops waving Romanian flags re-established easily order on Vienna cobbled streets. The march sung by them was the national anthem "Wake up Romanians", firstly heard during 1848 Revolution. It was the "revenge" of the most persecuted nation within the Hapsburg Empire"

Pamfil Seicaru was the most prominent Romanian journalist in inter-war period. He was awarded Michael the Brave military order in WW1.

This post has been edited by mateias on January 12, 2008 07:43 pm

@ mateias: Thanks for sharing!!!!!

Could it be that were so many romanians present there because of the austrian policy of sending soldiers from one frontier to the opposite one?
Did many romanians fought on the italian front?

BTW, it was Carol emperor king then, Franz Joseph has died.

PS Hello again!

At Hoover Institution Archives (Stanford University) there is a box with documents donated by an important Romanian statistician, Sabin Manuila. Among them, Iuliu Maniu's biography. This document was published in 2003 by Magazin Istoric.

This is the link.
http://www.itcnet.ro/history/archive/mi200...rrent3/mi86.htm

The biography confirms Pamfil Seicaru's statement on what happened in Vienna by the end of October 1918 (Manuila: Maniu succeeded in making a national army of 70,000 by including Romanian officers and soldiers from K.u.K Infantry Regiments no. 62 and 64 (recruits from Transylvania and Bukowina). With this army, Maniu, who commanded from the War Minister, was able to defeat the Soviets of Workers and maintain order there. Later, this army helped the Czech National Commitee to take control of Prague and declare independence.

"Apoi, la 30 octombrie 1918, convocând 100 de ofiteri români, creeaza Sfatul Soldatilor Români din Viena si reuseste apoi sa organizeze - cu soldatii care se întorceau de pe front, între care regimentele 62 si 64 de infanterie, compuse din români transilvaneni si bucovineni - o armata nationala de 70.000 de oameni. Cu aceasta armata, sublocotenentul Maniu - care comanda din Ministerul de Razboi al falnicei monarhii apuse - salveaza ordinea la Viena si apoi restabileste si netezeste drumul preluarii puterii de catre Comitetul National Ceh, la Praga".

This post has been edited by mateias on October 05, 2008 10:53 am