Army equipment statistics

[BRMTvonUngern-Sternberg]

Hello!Welcome eweryone!
Im writing from Poland.
Our countries was near alliants beetwen two wars!
Especially in military relations!
And i have a few question!
1.Can you tell me how many equipment Romanian army captured in 1917 after Russian army collapse in Moldavia and Besarabia?
2.Can you tell me how many equipment Romanian army was austro-hungarian production?
3.Or another production?
>>>>>>
Summary question:
How many equipment was in Romanian arsenal in early 20-ties?
By the first im interesting riffle and carabins.
Mosin-?
Mannlicher (Austro-Hungarian)-?
By the second:
M93Caracano-?
Mauser-27000(polish book)
Lebel-190000(pol.b.)
Berthier-?
vetterli-?
martini-?
other(Berdan,Arisaka etc.)-?
If you can, give me title and author of book with this data!
Regards!

[mihnea]

Un fortunately this period was not studied too much (almost not at all) so there is very little info on the quantities of rifles that were in Romanian arsenals after 1919.

A small correction to your question I think that you are referring to M93 Romanian Mannlicher as there were no Carcano's in the Romanian use.

The only numbers I can give you are from "Romania in Razboiul Mondial Volumul I Documente Anexe" (Romania in the Grate war Volume I Annex documents). There are a few tables that show the quantities of Romanian rifles at the beginning and at the end of WWI.

Mannlicher 93 rifles: at the beginning 373936, at the end 82200.
Lebel (in fact Berthies but this is how they were presented in Romanian documents) at the beginning 23163, at the end 75399.
Mannlicher 90 and 95 at the beginning 78940, at the end 54131.
Wetterly at the beginning -, at the end 93308.
Romanian Henri Martiny m79 rifles at the beginning 130071, at the end 43201.

Mannlicher m93 carbines at the beginning 60000, at the end 17899.
Henri Martiny m79 carbines at the beginning 8732, at the end 2240.

The beginning of the war means 1916 the year Romania entered the war and 1919 is the year the war ended. I'm sure Romania received many rifles after 1919 and captured many Mosins in 1917 and probably some Arisaka's but these were not in service at that time (probably because of the shortage of ammo).

About the Mannlicher 90 and 95, Romania received a relative big amount just before the war in 1913 when it mobilized to go in Bulgaria as it was established that there were not enough M93 and a new order was given to Steyr but because we needed the guns ASAP they given us M90 and M95. In 1916 when we entered the war Russian given us a big amount of captured M95's.

[BRMTvonUngern-Sternberg]

Thank you!Wery much!
Maybe another side!
Its hard to find early 20ties!
Lets give me 30ties!
For example 1939?1938?1931?
Romanian industry not produced Austrian Mannlicher or Mosin and statistics was the same early 20ties like 1939???
Bether that than nothing
I will make deduction base on it!
>>>>
And question:
Your 1918 statistisc are:
Number of riffle in front troops or all army????All riffles in country???
????
Because im find data(in forum) 262 000 buying french riffles in Romania Army?
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...4&hl=mannlicher
And 9982 after 1917.You give 75399??Maybe 175399 or 275399????Or maybe Romania bought smaller number french riffles?
Henry Martini 143000
Mannlicher 90-95 -60000
vetterli 122983
Its interesting therefore im asking!


This post has been edited by BRMTvonUngern-Sternberg on March 04, 2008 05:40 pm

[mihnea]

I was referring to the inter war era and even for WWII the information’s are sketchy.

There are some contradictory date in that book in my opinion there are other documents for example from 1 january 1914 that show 142905 Martiny’s and 60000 Mannlichers M89 (M90) and M95. Another document from 1 january 1918: 75086 M93, 150.985 Lebel's (Berthie’s); at this point Romania was cut off from the rest of it's allays so no further rifles were received. Yes we received 123029 Vetterly's but e lost 24721 so the final figure is 98308.

After the war there was a lot of equipment received from the French army coming from Thessaloniki.

Although they are in Romanian I think it's obvious what they mean. And yes the last two do not have a date.

[BRMTvonUngern-Sternberg]

Fantastic!!!
Real documents!
I like it!
You are very helpful!
>>>>
French army received equipment to Romania.Its important information fo me!
So its my calculation base on this statistics:
Scans number 1 presented front equipment.I suppose that number of Lebel 150 985 is number french + austrian riffles because caliber was the same 8 mm and munition was the same and document said nothing about Mannlicher...
But document with 150985 was made later because 54131+75399 = 129530 and Romania had new lebels and captured Mannlichers...
In my opinion document for 15 August ist better because reporting present situation.Latter(without date) document reported past situation...
Henry 142906 not 130071
Lebell 9982 not 23163
M90/95 60000 not 78940
carabines 8732 -8724 its near
Other statistics are the same...
>>>>
Thank you very much!You are helping me very much!
If you will find another statistiscs especially after 1919 give me!
Regards!

This post has been edited by BRMTvonUngern-Sternberg on March 05, 2008 02:50 pm