90% of Romanian Jews killed during WW2?, according to some sources

[split from http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3639]

Hi Imp,

I ask you questions in normal font size and still don't get an answer!

For just one instance, who are these "Western authors" who claim Romania exterminated 90% of its Jewish population?

Cheers,

Sid.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=29356

Hi Imp,

Now that wasn't very helpful, was it?

The link you just gave as if in answer to my question mentions no Western authors who claim that Romania exterminated 90% of its Jewish population. Indeed, it makes clear that this was NOT the case.

Try again.

Cheers,

Sid.

Why should I bother answering your questions in the first place when you do anything but answer questions, and most of the time answer back with smart questions:

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=55550

The link I gave cites western author P. Johnson saying 750,000 jews were eterminated in Romania and author M. Carp saying the 1940 jewish population in Romania was 760,000. So that means these authors led me to believe more than 90% were exterminated.

[edited by admin]

This post has been edited by Victor on October 30, 2006 07:31 pm

Imp,

No, Johnson and Carp didn't lead you to believe anything of the sort. Your own failure to read your own sources properly led to your wildly inaccurate proposition that Romania exterminated 90% of its Jewish population.

1) Yes, Johnson does say that there were some 750,000 Romanan Jews.

2) But according to your own link Carp says "Approximately 260,000 of them (Jewish deaths) can be put down to the account of the Romanian government....."

How on earth does this lead you to blame Johnson and Carp for your own error?

Can you accept responsibility for nothing?

'I think the situation is pretty serious as we are dealing with human deaths, so this kind of "error" on such a scale or lack of proper investigation is unacceptable', don't you?

Cheers,

Sid.

[edited by admin]

Johnson doesnt state there were 750,000 jews in Romania. He clearly says 750,000 jews in Romania were.... exterminated. Carp says there were 760,000 jews in 1940 Romania. Hence more than 90% of romanian jews were exterminated according to western author P. Johnson. Can you deny this conclusion?

If you want to use Carp's lower figure of 400,000 jews killed and argue that the amount of extermination blamed on the Romanian Government was not 90%, then you have to at least give a wider statistic as to the total number of jews under romanian government jurisdiction, so as to see that the 260,000 jews killed by the Rom. gov. according to Carp do not amount to 90% of the jewish population under Rom. gov. jurisdiction. So I am waiting for your facts.

p.s. and thus you have managed to drag the discussion into off-topic. Congratulations, you always do that.

take care

[edited by admin]

Hi Imp,

Will you never read your own posts and sources?

Johnson says absolutely nothing in your link about Romanians killing 750,000 Jews. He lays this figure (inaccurately, I may add) at Hitler's door. Unless, of course, you think Hitler was Romanian?

Where does Carp say that Romanians killed 90% of their Jewish population? Nowhere. Where do his figures give this impression? Nowhere!

If this particular discussion is off topic it is entirely your fault. You put up the erroneous figures in the first place and are now putting up bogus arguments to defend them. God alone knows why!

Stop squirming and please show a little integrity. You made a mistake. Admit it and then we can get on with the subject you so clearly wish to return to.

Cheers,

Sid.

Johnson clearly says 750,000 jews in Romania were.... exterminated. Carp says there were 760,000 jews in 1940 Romania. Hence more than 90% of romanian jews were exterminated according to western author P. Johnson. Can you deny this conclusion?

If you want to use Carp's lower figure of 400,000 jews killed and argue that the amount of extermination blamed on the Romanian Government was not 90%, then you have to at least give a wider statistic as to the total number of jews under romanian government jurisdiction, so as to see that the 260,000 jews killed by the Rom. gov. according to Carp do not amount to 90% of the jewish population under Rom. gov. jurisdiction. So I am waiting for your facts.

Hi Imp,

You stated that (1) Romanians exterminated 90% of their Jewish population and (2) that you were led to believe this by some "Western authors".

Neither is true, even using your own links!

According to your own post Johnson (who, incidenally, is a journalist, not a historian) does say (inaccurately) 750,000 Romanian Jews were exterminated. However, he does not attribute them to Romanians. He attributes them to Hitler. So we can safely discount Johnson altogether on the grounds of inaccuracy and not mentioning the Romanians as culprits at all.

On the other hand Carp, in your post, states quite clearly "From among the Jewish inhabitants of Romania, which in 1940 was estimated to be 760,000, approx. 400,000 were killied. Approximately 260,000 of these (Jewish deaths) can be put down on the Romanian government's account............"

Nothing in your quotes from either Johnson or Carp would lead anyone with the slightest logic to believe that the Romanians exterminated 90% of their Jewish population.

You don't need any additional facts from me. Your own figures don't support your ridiculous proposition.

I would go further. Your continued stupidity in this matter is making you look ridiculous too!

You made a simple but rather defamatory mistake against Romanians all by yourself. Just get over it, admit that both the original figures used by Johnson are wrong and your interpretation of his and Carp's figures was also wrong.

Cheers,

Sid.

This post has been edited by sid guttridge on October 31, 2006 01:30 pm

Hear, Hear Good point Sid.

Kevin in Deva

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on October 31, 2006 12:33 pm

And you are so naive as to not understand the context? In that quote Johnson does indeed blame Hitler for the whole Holocaust (as its main political and ideological source) but in case you are unaware, Romania as a state and its leaders at the time are blamed for the Holocaust in this country, not exonerated by blaming Hitler. So the point stands that Johnson claims 750,000.

Like I said, Johnson clearly says 750,000 jews in Romania were.... exterminated. Carp says there were 760,000 jews in 1940 Romania. Hence more than 90% of romanian jews were exterminated according to western author P. Johnson. Can you deny this conclusion?

If you want to hang on to what Carp says about only 260,000 being attributed to Romania, please provide a wider statistic to see if the 260,000 are not even near to represent 90% of the jewish population under romanian gov. jurisdiction. I will then withdraw my 90% claim.

Hi Imperialist,

Nope. According to your own reference to him, Johnson is both wrong and makes no mention of Romanian culpability.

And I am not hanging onto Carp's figures. They are YOURS, not mine. But even they give no reason to believe that Romanians exterminated 90% of their Jewish population.

I am under no obligation to do your research for you. Stop being idle. You posted this nonsense. You justify it or you withdraw it. There is no middle way.

Well?

Cheers,

Sid.

That's your standard answer. And yet you constantly attack my posts, put pressure on me to justify simple facts, to provide off-topic wider context statistics, etc. When I ask you to do the same you refuse. Your attitude is arrogant and superior. I wont waste my time speaking with you anymore.

He doesnt do it directly, but it is obvious that Romania's government gets the blame for exterminating 750,000 jews, though in this particular quote Johnson chooses to assign the general blame to Hitler.

Hi Imp,

So, Johnston (wrongly) states that the deaths 750,000 Romanian Jews were attributable to Hitler, but you nevertheless decide unilaterally that it is somehow "obvious" that the Romanian Government is responsible?

What on earth is the point of putting up a (wrong) source yourself and then not simply willfully ignoring its content but instead inventing something completely different that it clearly does not say and is not in any case accurate?

That is so unbelievably irrational and stupid that I am completely lost for words........... which presumably means that as you, by your own account, won't waste time speaking to me any more this thread is now finished.

Hooray!

Cheers,

Sid.