What fighter plane do you think Romania should use?

The enemy won't fill your roads with craters because he'd like to use them too.

There are 150,000 km of roads in Romania. 1/3 are unpaved. Let's say another 1/3 are unfit for use. That leaves 50,000 km of usable roads. Cut half of that for not being straight lines. So that leaves 25,000 km What is the length of road needed by a fighter to land? 1 km let's say? So you'd need at least 1 bomb every 500 m to disable its use as landing strip.

So to deny the use of 25,000 km you'd need 50,000 bombs.

[edited by admin]

This is interesting... You state that in a war, in order to attack the infrastructure (i.e. roads of ANY military importance), the enemy should need a reason. This seems funny!

How would you know this? compared to what aircraft? Did you SAAb is willing to Romania 100% license for Gripen; the Americans do not even like to give all software codes, this way they keep control of aircraft!
Thank you

Who was talking about conventional wars? I wasn't, not when Russia is involved...

RaduB you forget one think about Gripen vs F16: RCS(Radar cross-section)
Gripen's frontal RCS: about 1/5 of F/A-18C/D's, 1/3 of F-16C/D Block50/52's, and 1/2 of Mirage-2000-5. This means that the Gripen is more difficult to detect
than a F16 in BVR(Beyond Visual Range) engagement. In a F16 vs Gripen in BVR Gripen has the first chance to detect and fire upon the F16.
And Gripen C/D is the A/B version upgraded to NATO standard.

I presume you speak about me...

They say that when one says "do you know who I am" it is too late!

I may not know much about aviation and I may not know much about the Gripen. Or maybe I do.
However, I was only talking about figures, the kind of stuff that anyone with no knowledge of aviation (but a bit of stuff between their ears) can figure out.

Here are some numbers (all from Wikipedia):
Max take-off weight: Gripen: 14.000 kg - F16 Block 30: 19.200KG (This means that the F16 can take off while carrying more weight, such as for example bombs)
Powerplant:
Dry Thrust: Gripen: 54 kN - F16 Block 30: 76.3 kN
Thrust with afterburner: Gripen: 80.5 kN - F16 Block 30: 128.9 kN
Max. Speed: Gripen: 2,130 km/h - F16 Block 30: 2,414 km/h
Combat radius: Gripen: 800 km - F16 Block 30: 550 km (infinite with in-flight refueling)
Ferry range: Gripen: 3,200 km - F16 Block 30: 4,220 km (infinite with in-flight refueling)
Maximum altitude: Gripen: 15,240 m - F16 Block 30: 18,000+ m
Armament: Gripen: 1 × 27 mm cannon, 120 rounds - F16 Block 30: 1× 20 mm Vulcan gatling gun, 515 rounds


Gripen Armament:
6× Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)
6 × Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA
4 x Rb.71 (Skyflash) or Meteor
4 x Rb.75
2 x KEPD.350
4 x GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
4 x rocket pods 13.5 cm rockets
2 x Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
2 x Bk.90 cluster bomb
8 x Mark 82 bombs
1 x ALQ-TLS ECM pod

F16 armament:
Hardpoints: 2× wing-tip Air-to-air missile launch rails, 6× under-wing & 3× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 20,450 lb (9,276 kg) of payload
Rockets:
4× LAU-61/LAU-68 rocket pods (each with 19× /7× Hydra 70 mm rockets, respectively) or
4× LAU-5003 rocket pods (each with 19× CRV7 70 mm rockets) or
4× LAU-10 rocket pods (each with 4× Zuni 127 mm rockets)
Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
2× AIM-7 Sparrow or
6× AIM-9 Sidewinder or
6× IRIS-T or
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM or
6× Python-4
Air-to-ground missiles:
6× AGM-45 Shrike or
6× AGM-65 Maverick or
4× AGM-88 HARM
Anti-ship missiles:
2× AGM-84 Harpoon or
4× AGM-119 Penguin
Bombs:
2× CBU-87 Combined Effects Munition
2× CBU-89 Gator mine
2× CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon
Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser capable
4× GBU-10 Paveway II
6× GBU-12 Paveway II
6× Paveway-series laser-guided bombs
4× JDAM
4× Mark 84 general-purpose bombs
8× Mark 83 GP bombs
12× Mark 82 GP bombs
B61 nuclear bomb
Others:
SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod or
AN/ALQ-131 & AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods or
LANTIRN, Lockheed Martin Sniper XR & LITENING targeting pods or
up to 3× 300/330/370 US gallon Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight or extended range/loitering time.


So, I may not know much about aircraft, as you say. But, going by mathematical rule that the higher number is... more than a lower number (i.e. 2 is more than 1), please explain to me how can you still believe that the higher figures for the F16 make the Gripen better?

All the best of luck to you!
Radu

Wow, for someone claims to neutral; all of your posts are stanchly pro F-16. I am not saying that the F-16 was not a great plane! it is. But I'am saying the Gripen is superior to the F-16 in most respects! But it is not just about how good the respective fighters are, its also about what kind of deal Romania gets.

Lets compare deals
Aircraft involved:
SAAB/BAE= 48 JAS-39C/D or JAS-39 NG all new
LM= 24 F-16 block 32 used and 24 F-16 block 52 new

License Production:
SAAB/BAE= yes included as part of the offsets!
LM=not for Romania

Offsets:
SAAB/BAE= yes, 150% of purchase
LM= not for Romania

Purchase Price:
SAAB/BAE= 4.2 bil. for C/D or 4.75 bil. for N/G, with option to pay later!
LM= 4.8 bil. for 24 used and 24 new

Armament included:
SAAB/BAE= yes
LM= no

Judge for yourselfs my fellow Romanians! One company is rolling out all stops for us, and the is not! Its that simple!

As quoting wikipedia, you throw those figures in trash. Wikipedia is not a realiable source!
Thank you

This post has been edited by Stephen Dabapuscu on March 01, 2009 09:20 pm

STI excellent point about the RCS section! However all Gripen models A/B/C/D and NG are NATO standard!
Thank You

Imperialist,

Do you have any idea of the impact that an aicraft can effect on a runway? Do you think that all an aircraft needs is a straight road? The roads that an aircraft can land on are very specific in their make-up and specifications. That is why the talk is about MOTORWAYS! *

Radu

* Motorway = autostrada, autopista, estrada, freeway, autoroute, autobahn, autosnelweg, αυτοκινητόδρομος, шоссе, adica drum din ala lat betonat pe care merge bajetzii la mare cu gagicile cu viteaza mare buey!

[edited by admin]

This post has been edited by Victor on March 02, 2009 07:36 am

Why buy an Audi when you can have a Skoda cheaper? Who cares if an Audi is better? The Lada is cheaper! Who cares that the Audi can go faster, better, further? the Lada is cheap!

Look, if something is too good to be true, then it is too good to be true. The Saab is going cheap because no one wants it. Look at how many air forces use it. Only 200 made since 1991? What are thiose guys doing in that factory?

What makes you think that I am biased towards the F16? I just quoted the figures from Wikipedia.

I said it before and I say it again. Wikipedia is a website that anyone can edit. If you know something to be untrue on Wikipedia, then you have a duty to correct it. If you do not correct it, then do not complain about it. In my opinion, this kind of rubbish that is circulated on forums is far more insidious than Wikipedia. At least Wikipedia has an editor in the "wider public". On forums, any natarau can say whatever they want

Radu

Just an "innocent" question, Radub: you show soooo many types of ammo, right? How many of them do you think we'll get from the Americans? Why have billions of gadgets and possibilities when we could never use them...

Imperialist and Radu, please refrain from remarks the likes of which I have just deleted from your posts.

Where on Earth did you find 25000 Km of roads in Romania that are wide enough to land a fighter on them?

The section of the A1 highway on which an airplane could land on, before it was efurbished for the first time, lacked the separation between the two directions in order to make it wide enough.

Same applies to anything, be it your car, your camera, your mobile phone, your frigates, your jet fighters

I have no idea how many of those gizmos and doodahs will or can be supplied to RoAF. It all depends on the quartermasters.

Radu

Difficult but not impossible. I would be terribly impressed if the RCS was ZERO.

Look, it matters very little if a jet plane has the radar signature of a "football" or a "Flock of birds". No radar operator will ignore a "football" or "flock of birds" flying Mach2 at an altitude of 10.000 metres.

Radu

Don't worry, there are sections of National Roads and European Roads that can be used too.

This is on DN1:

http://www.wizard-media.ro/2007/img/c02-p12-w600.jpg

We have 280 km of motorways and 15,000 km of national roads. There are plenty of sections of DNs that with little changes/upgrading can be used.

This is a google earth snapshot of a part of the road/landing strip system in Sweden. Does this look like a motorway to you:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2596/f7st1ed0051oh.jpg

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7504/ro...etaxi0123ju.jpg

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/955/roa...nding0130jd.jpg


What are they going to do, bomb all these road sections:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9552/f7...etsed0076ww.jpg

p.s. - I don't understand your attitude shouting at me about the motorways "buey". I remind you what YOU said:

If the "enemy" knows that your airforce is going to use any straight stretch of road as a runway, then, right after taking out all your proper runways, they will take out every straight stretch of road you got.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on March 02, 2009 09:40 am