Romanian pilots in Angola 1981-1982

Thank you!
What about serials and national markings on the aircraft ?
Were there any ?
I think there's an "I" on the tail of the last Alouette.
Angolan serials were "I" followed by 2-3 numbers in the case of training aircraft and "C" again with 2-3 digits for combat aircraft.

Indeed, there is an I 202

Excellent!
Any similar photos with IAR-823 or BN-2?
Also, is there some bird symbol on the vertical tail? Or am I seeing things?
Notice also the Angolan roundel - that black-red "yin-yang" circle with a yellow star, just behind the main gear strut. On the photo from the previous page, the roundel was mostly obscured by the body of the Angolan

I'm aware, I ve seen pictures

I just decided to write a book about this African mission, I have good informations, maybe will be ready next september

Here are some anectodes regarding the Romanian involvement in Angola.

It was a good deal for both the Romanian state (one of the few successful of Ceausescu's in Africa) and the military personnel whose main interest for volunteering was smuggling. It was not uncommon that bribes were payed by one to be enlisted for mission in Angola. The main reasons were that the Romanian military personnel was payed in foreign currency (valuta) and that they could do smuggling, as the military airport at Otopeni did not fell under the custom laws, so it was a kind of duty free. The Romanians were taking with them all kind of trinkets and watches in order to trade with the local natives, bringing back home coffee, snake skins and even ebony sculptures of patrimonial value. Also, those who choose to take their family with them (wives being payed half the husband's wage) could "desert" to South Africa, to escape the Iron Curtain.

The Russians in the area treated Romanians very bad, as were the relations between the two states. The Romanians however were outside the conflict area in Angola, the Cuban troops being involved there. The Portuguese found the Romanians the best trading partners.

Romanians were camped inside colonial Portuguese manors which became derelict after Angola gain independence. They found under coats of dirt stainless taps of craftsmanship unknown to communist Romania of those days, so they dismantled and took them on return to Romania.

The Romanians were given weapons, but given the fact that they often get drunk with Portuguese wine supplied by the locals and fired their weapons, the weapons were taken away.

A little known fact is that Rhodesians also came in Romania for airforce training, and they were coming from two different factions, one pro-communist, and one pro-western, and they even get to murder because of these divergences (one was found killed on the railroad, cut in half by train).

I met people that were part of the SIRIUS mission. Heard their stories; most of the time funny, sometimes sad. Never heard of any "desert" attempt - by the way the correct word is defection.

I think there was no way in that context to defect to South Africa. The Angolan government power was not possible to be exercised over the whole territory; there were many grey areas not safe for foreigners. There was no bus, air or sea service between Angola and South Africa - two countries in conflict. Before propagating anectodes we should do a sanity check. So, how would you imagine the defection process with the Ro camp outside the conflict area (as you say - a relative notion in reality), in region where only a completly blind person would not recognize a foreigner.


"The Russians in the area treated Romanians very bad, as were the relations between the two states. The Romanians however were outside the conflict area in Angola, the Cuban troops being involved there. The Portuguese found the Romanians the best trading partners."

Again, as I've heard, there were no "very bad" relations; Soviets and Romanians were there for different and non-intersecting reasons. Also, in the final statement of the quote above you may have meant "the Angolans". The Portuguese were not very popular and significantly represented in the area at that time since they packed and left some years before.

The Romanians were given weapons, but given the fact that they often get drunk with Portuguese wine supplied by the locals and fired their weapons, the weapons were taken away."

I get this also as rather a joke.

In English "anecdote" is an amusing account of something that has happen. In Romanian as far as I know, the meaning of "anecdota" does not (neccessarly) include the "something that happened" part. Therefore the correct corresponding English word for "anecdota" would be rather "joke" or similar.

Once again I haven't been there and I'm basing my comments on the lack of mention made by some people that have been there and on a simple sanity check of what you depict in your statements. If I'm wrong, it should be easy for you to give nore specifics. Names would be a good point to start with. I'd be very interested to learn something so unexpected.

My comments are addressing the content of your post under the English meaning. Under the Romanian meaning, I guess you're free to write whatever you want. You just have to make it clear.

Sorin

This are outrageus! You should be shame to post this stupid stories here, every one in the world can see it. Please, try to verify before you post another ,,anecdotes'' and... learn some history.

No military has defected, but not only military personnel has been sent there. There were also Romanian civilians, not related to the flight school, such as agronomists, construction engineers etc. The Romanians were keeping in touch with each other even if they were in different areas. The fact that there were a lot of gray, unsafe areas, does not mean that personnel was always staying in their camps. And it was heard that one can get to South Africa with the help of local guides.

Not all of the Portuguese has left, some colonists remained, and had contacts with Romanians.

So which part do you find so incredible?

Well, what about this one?

,,The Romanians were given weapons, but given the fact that they often get drunk with Portuguese wine supplied by the locals and fired their weapons, the weapons were taken away''.

Why do you think they were sent to Angola without weapons? Because they were presented as civilian from the Romconsult Company. After they asked and received Ak-47 from the Angolians, they had to give them back for the same reason...

Also, for the same reason they did not have military uniforms, but some original sand-color uniforms, without ranks on the shoulders.

Ok, but when and why were the weapons taken away?

Gen. Niculescu asked the weapons in the first weeks, when he saw that the situation could be dangerous. The Romanian Embassy informed Bucharest about this, and, so, came the order from Romania to give the weapons back, because they were sent as civilians working for Romconsult.

A gift for Zapacitu

Hi, actually "to desert/military desertion" is correct too. From what I've read here they were soldiers.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on October 07, 2008 08:32 pm