Nazi flights to Manchuria from Roumanian soil ?

I have been interested in claims of flights by Junkers Ju-290 aircraft to Manchuria from Odessa. One claim I have heard is that when Odessa fell these flights were based from Roumania for a short time. Have any members heard anything about such flights ?

Western sources are scarce and I suspect members here might have heard different threads to mine ?

I didn't heard about this....but let's think about it, there's a very long distance to Manchuria and what was the porpouse of these flights?

For a Junkers Ju-290 to be able to reach Manchuria from Odessa, it would have to fly across Soviet Union. This is in theory, because it never happened (as far as I know in this moment).
The Japanese were very cautious in respecting their neutrality obligations (while Soviet Union was cheating them by allowing the American air crews landed in S.U. to secretly return to the U.S.). The Japanese accepted the aerial bridge with Junkers Ju-290 only as long the route was Ukraine - Black Sea / Turkey / Caspian Sea - Iran - India - Tibet / China - Manchuria. This route was longer. When the German territory in Russia shrank, and the frontlines got closer to "Fatherland", the only possibility to reach Manchuria was straight across Soviet Union.
The Japanese did not agree this breach in their neutral relations with S.U.

This post has been edited by Florin on February 13, 2005 04:39 am

I don' know if the Japanese would be that concerned with accepting - so to say - flights that had crossed Soviet soil as long as they were kept relatively secret. In 1942 the Italians fx. flew to Japan via USSR (CSIR occupied land near Rostov) and China. See: http://www.comandosupremo.com/Triumph.html

What btw was the purpose of the German flight?

Regards and all.

- Mr. Bluenote.

With submarines, few times with surface ships and even with airplanes, each part tried to offer to the other what it did not have.

Rubber, wolfram, tin and special little mortars (for commandos) was attempted to be send from Japan to Germany (sometimes successfully). Advanced technology was attempted to be send from Germany to Japan (sometimes successfully).

As an WWII airplane can carry only few tons (best case scenario), it makes sense to carry documentation, like in your story with the Italian plane.

The last German submarine leaving for Japan in March 1945 surrendered to the Americans in May 1945. It carried a complete Messerschmidt 262 (dismantled and stowed in boxes), documentation from the V-2 project (I guess not all documentation, because all of it weighted 15000 kilograms of paper ), and 500 kilograms of Uranium Oxide, to help the Japanese nuclear research. Some say that the refined product from the 500 kilograms of German Uranium Oxide ended in the American nukes dropped in Japan.

And by the way... "German flights", not "German flight", because they were many.

This post has been edited by Florin on February 17, 2005 02:56 am

Some U-boats continued to do missions in Pacific for Japan. I don't know if they were maned by german or japanesse crew.
Germans send to Japan even 20 m.m. guns for aircrafts.

Iama

So it's not sure what those planes could carry....what is known is that most shipments from Germany to Japan were made by u-boat. Is that corect?

Technical documentation (know-how: drawings and manufacturing instructions) is the most valuable asset, per weight. It worth to be carried by an airplane.

Other things very valuable per unit of weight were special vacuum tubes (for electronics). Some of them could be built by the Germans, but the Japanese could not make them.

Thanks Florin for the info.

At the end of the war ,the germans sent a dismounted Me-262 to the japaneses so Japan could star production of jets ....too late ,as usual . Now we may think that if the war had lasted one year more , the allies could habe been in deep shit .

I don't really see how some ME-262 plans would have changed Japan's fate. Where would these wonder-planes be built? In the factories destroyed by the B-29 raids, and later the atomic bombs. Where would the fuel come from to fly them? From southeast Asia, in tankers sunk by American submarines. Where would the pilots come from to fly them? Most of Japan's best pilots were dead.

And let's not forget, the Allies were moving forward with jet programs of their own.

What is your source ?

Iama

This post has been edited by Iamandi on July 28, 2005 06:29 am

Jeff, I find it surprising that there is little focus on the american submarine campaign against Japan, at least in TV documentaries. I guess they were as tough as the germans against England. Did they employ the same tactics, how successful were they, etc. Do you know why is that theater ignored, or if it is so? (maybe we are not hearing it here).

And, about the Me-262 in the hands of the Japanese... I think if that were to happen, they'd use them for kamikaze missions anyway...



take care

Hi Guys,

There is a thread on Feldgrau with some information on the subject of flights to and from Japan. The source is "Der Japanflug" by Peter Herde (2000).

Apparently there were no German flights.

There was a failed Japanese flight that disappeared.

There was one successful Italian flight that left Rome on 29 June 1942 and returned on 20 July 1942. It was met in Rome by Mussolini personally.

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That said, another poster on Feldgrau says that 4 tons of optical instruments were flown from Odessa to Mukden in April 1944 and the aircraft returned with molybdenum. However, wasn't Odessa captured by the Red Army in April 1944? I think this report is probably less reliable than the Herde book above and may refer to a plan rather than an actual operation. Besides, why not start futher east in the Crimea, which was still in Axis hands, in order to save on fuel?

Cheers,

Sid.

This is a British Admiralty signal which mentions U-234's departure for Japan

There have been claims from other sources about two dismantled U-boats on U-234. An Italian Campini jet engine was previously sent to Japan. Twelve V-2 rockets were sent to Japan on U-219 which reached Djakarta in November 1944.

This post has been edited by Kiwi on January 04, 2009 10:27 am