25 October 1944

[Carol I]

25 October 1944 has been the date when the last piece of land in Transylvania has been liberated and consequently the Day of the Romanian Army has since been celebrated each year on 25 October.

25 October is also the birthday of King Michael (he was 23 in 1944).

Obviously one cannot assume that it was a coincidence that the last piece of land in Transylvania has been liberated on the very birthday of the king and that it is more likely that the army gave him a very special birthday present in 1944.

I wonder how accurate or how complete this present was. Was 25 October 1944 the date when some advanced Romanian units have reached the traditional frontier line? This means that fights were still carried on the day and possibly some days after and therefore the Romanian territory was not fully liberated on that day.

On the other hand, was 25 October 1944 the day when all enemy pockets of resistance in Transylvania have been mopped up? This implies that the frontier has been reached several days earlier (how many?). If this was the truth, how was it possible that the last enemy units on Romanian soil were determined to surrender precisely on the birthday of the king?

[mabadesc]

October 25, 1944, was the date when the last major combat occurred in Transylvania. It resulted in the liberation of the town of Carei, thus pushing back the last organized German/Hungarian troops out of Romania.

For some reason, a lot of significance was placed on the liberation of Carei. At the time, General Avramescu was the commander of the 4th Army throughout the campaign of liberating Transylvania.

However, for Carei, he actually personally commanded the troops involved in that battle and drew up the battle plans himself. For this he used mainly the 18th division and 9th division for a left flank attack, while the 21st Division attacked from the right flank, liberating Satu Mare in the process.
After Carei was secured, on Oct. 25, General Avramescu issued a statement (Ordin de zi nr. 104) to the 4th army, which was widely publicized and quoted on the radio and in newspapers at the time. Excerpts from the statement say:

"La chemarea tarii pentru dezrobirea Ardealului rupt prin Dictatul de la Viena ati raspuns cu insufletire si credinta in izbinda poporului nostru, tineri si batrini ati pornit spre hotarele sfinte ale patriei si cu piepturile voastre ati facut zagaz neinfricat dusmanului, care voia sa ajunga la Carpati [....]. Zdrobit de focul napraznic al artileriei si de necontenitele voastre atacuri, inamicul a fost izgonit din Ardealul scump [...], eliberind astfel ultima palma de pamint sfint al tarii".

(Sorry - no time to translate it in English).

One interesting note is that General Mihail, the country's Army Chief of Staff was present during the battle so that he could telephone and transmit to the King Mihai the outcome of the fight, which he did on the evening of October 25.

I'm not sure if the king's birthday was a coincidence or not - Victor or Dragos, what do you think?
What's certain is that soon after this battle the Soviet troops started to take increasing control in imposing their tactics and in diverting supplies, causing General Mihail to resign and Gen. Avramescu to start protesting.

In a way, I think the Carei battle was also important because it was one of the last major battles planned and fought mainly by Romanian officers and soldiers.

[Dénes]

QUOTE

In a way, I think the Carei battle was also important because it was one of the last major battles planned and fought mainly by Romanian officers and soldiers.

There was no major battle for Carei (in Hungarian Nagykároly, in German Großkarol), as the Hungarian troops were already ordered to retreat to the line of River Tisza, thus did not offer any significant resistence to the advancing Rumanian troops.

[mabadesc]

I think you're over-analyzing, Denes. The term "major" is quite relative and subjective. If you feel better, I'll rephrase and say "....one of the last battles..." instead of "...one of the last major battles..."
Regardless, whether it was a "major" battle or just a "regular" battle was not the main point.

By the way, quoting from "Armata Romana in WWII", p. 141:

"...the offensive continued....up to the plains...between Carei and Satu Mare, where the enemy had organized powerful defensive positions."

And yes, we know that German troops were retreating to avoid encirclement due to the Debretin offensive.

[Victor]

QUOTE

25 October 1944 has been the date when the last piece of land in Transylvania has been liberated and consequently the Day of the Romanian Army has since been celebrated each year on 25 October.

Actually it has been the day of the Armed Forces since 1959.
The first official day of celebration was 2 October, the date the TV Division was formed in 1943, and had been established in July 1951.

QUOTE

On the other hand, was 25 October 1944 the day when all enemy pockets of resistance in Transylvania have been mopped up? This implies that the frontier has been reached several days earlier (how many?).

For example, the 3rd Mountain Division reached the frontier, near Oradea as early as 12 October.

[Carol I]

QUOTE

Actually it has been the day of the Armed Forces since 1959. The first official day of celebration was 2 October, the date the TV Division was formed in 1943, and had been established in July 1951.

Thank you for these details. But the fact is that the Day of the Romanian Army has been celebrated for more than 40 years (and still is) on 25 October, this being the date when the last Transylvanian town has been liberated.

QUOTE

For example, the 3rd Mountain Division reached the frontier, near Oradea as early as 12 October.

I meant to ask if the traditional border has been reached on ALL points on 25 October 1944. The fact that on 12 October the frontier was reached near Oradea but not near Carei means obviously that some part of the border was still behind enemy lines.

[Carol I]

QUOTE

\"La chemarea tarii pentru dezrobirea Ardealului rupt prin Dictatul de la Viena ati raspuns cu insufletire si credinta in izbinda poporului nostru, tineri si batrini ati pornit spre hotarele sfinte ale patriei si cu piepturile voastre ati facut zagaz neinfricat dusmanului, care voia sa ajunga la Carpati [....].  Zdrobit de focul napraznic al artileriei si de necontenitele voastre atacuri, inamicul a fost izgonit din Ardealul scump [...], eliberind astfel ultima palma de pamint sfint al tarii\". (Sorry - no time to translate it in English).

Here is a translation:

"To the call of the country for the liberation of Transylvania torn through the Vienna Dictate you answered with enthusiasm and faith in the victory of our people, young and old you started towards the holy borders of the motherland and with your chests made a fearless dam against the enemy, who tried to get to the Carpathians [....]. Smashed by the terrifying fire of the artillery and by your continuous attacks, the enemy was thrown out from our beloved Transylvania [....], thus liberating the last plot of the holy land of the country."

[Carol I]

Thanks mabadesc. I have now remembered about Carei being the last town in Transylvania that was liberated in 1944. The fact that Carei is situated very close to the border may have led the army commanders to consider that its liberation on 25 October 1944 was equivalent to the completion of the liberation of Transylvania.

Your mentioning of the presence of the Army Chief of Staff, Gen. Mihail, at Carei is also very important. The question is why was he present on the front line? Was he there because he wanted to witness personally the completion of the liberation of the Romanian national territory or because he wanted to take more credit by personally reporting to the king on his birthday the liberation of the last Romanian town?

Do you or anyone else know if there was any pressure on the troops to finish the securing of the town on 25 October 1944? However, the term "securing" implies that pockets of resistance may have still been in the town on that day.

Carol I

[mabadesc]

Carol, you're quite welcome (and thanks for translating the romanian quote into english).

In your last post, you said:

QUOTE

Your mentioning of the presence of the Army Chief of Staff, Gen. Mihail, at Carei is also very important. The question is why was he present on the front line? Was he there because he wanted to witness personally the completion of the liberation of the Romanian national territory or because he wanted to take more credit by personally reporting to the king on his birthday the liberation of the last Romanian town?

I don't think General Mihail was trying to take more credit. Mihail had been called to the front as early as October 11, 1944, by General Avramescu (who also commanded the liberation of Cluj, using mainly the 18th Mountain Division).
Avramescu had called Mihail to perform an inspection and convince himself of the low morale of Romanian troops. The low morale of the troops was due in great part to the lack of family news to the soldiers, especially from Moldova and the Eastern Romania, areas where the Soviets were greatly involved in pillaging. General Mihail also reported (agreeing with Avramescu's concerns), the distribution of communist propaganda to romanian troops, done through the Soviet-led newspaper "Graiul Nou".

I don't know what happened between King Mihai and General Mihail during those days, but apparently Mihail was not satisfied with King Mihai's inability (or unwillingness?) to rectify the situation, and soon sent in his resignation, although King Mihai had just promoted him to the rank of Lieutenant General.

General Avramescu didn't (or couldn't) resign because he was the active CO of the 4th Army, which was currently involved in combat. His resignation would have probably been considered as treason. But he continued to argue with Soviet commanders over these issues and over the lack of supplies, until he died in March 1945.

The sudden resignation of Mihail just after he was promoted by the king remains somewhat of a mistery.

[Carol I]

Thanks again mabadesc for the very interesting details you have provided.

According to this information, Gen. Mihail was present on the front line only for professional reasons. If I am not mistaken he was considered to be one of the most competent, if not the most competent, high ranking officer in the Romanian army at that time. His resignation soon after these events also indicates that he had a very straight spine (maybe not suited to the times to come).

Given these facts, is your personal opinion that the liberation of Carei on the king's birthday was simply a coincidence?

Carol I

[mabadesc]

I'm glad I could provide some useful information, Carol.

In closing, my personal opinion is that the date of Oct. 25 was a coincidence and not tied to the king's birthday.

QUOTE

If I am not mistaken he was considered to be one of the most competent, if not the most competent, high ranking officer in the Romanian army at that time.

Certainly General Mihail was a very competent officer. From the high ranking generals (army corps and above) who were still "employable" after 23 August, my opinion is that the most competent/prominent generals were Mihail, Dascalescu, and Avramescu.

Of course, I may be a bit subjective since General Avramescu was my great-grandfather (my mom's grandfather). :wink:

Regardless, all three of them had "spine" and were quite frank and open in arguing with Soviet generals over strategy, supplies, and policy.

My mom and grandmother remember that Avramescu always kept a small hidden revolver in his boot and used to say that "if the Russians want a piece of me, I'll make sure to take at least one of them with me" (which may have happened given his mysterious disappearance).

Also, on 17-X-'44, when the Soviets were introducing the "purging and re-organziation of the army" (i.e., introducing communist elements in the army), General Avramescu said in an interview to the newspaper "Cuvintul:

"Epurarea de care vorbesc unii o vom face noi, armata, si nu altcineva".

Dascalescu was similarly outspoken.

P.S. Btw., Mihail and Avramescu were family friends.

Sorry if I'm boring you with all this stuff.

[Dénes]

QUOTE

I think you're over-analyzing, Denes.  The term \"major\" is quite relative and subjective.  If you feel better, I'll rephrase and say \"....one of the last battles...\" instead of \"...one of the last major battles...\"

All I wanted is to slightly correct a detail of Rumanian military history, nothing else.
It's nothing personal, Mabadesc, at least not from my side.

[mabadesc]

No offense taken, Denes. In fact, thank you for the correction. It's always good to hear another person's angle/opinion. That's how we all learn...

Best wishes...

[Victor]

QUOTE

The sudden resignation of Mihail just after he was promoted by the king remains somewhat of a mistery.

Actually it is not. Gen. Mihail had forwarded his resignation several times before, as early as 7 September. On 12 October 1944, after Cluj and Oradea had been taken, he again resigned and it was approved.

QUOTE

If I am not mistaken he was considered to be one of the most competent, if not the most competent, high ranking officer in the Romanian army at that time. His

That is debatable, as he actually did not hold a command during the war, except for a few days in August.

[Carol I]

QUOTE

Sorry if I'm boring you with all this stuff.

Thanks again mabadesc for the extremely interesting details. You were not boring me at all with them. In fact the details are the flesh of a story, while the mere facts are its skeleton. Both of them are important as together they make a whole.

I am quite interested to find out more about your great-grandfather (maybe on private if it is not suitable here). I consider it a great pity that the Romanian generals from WWII did not have the chance to write their memoirs after the war. This way a very important first hand source of information for the Romanian point of view on the war was lost forever. We may only try and piece now the truth from other sources.

Carol I

P.S. Is your avatar the ID of your great-grandfather?