What was best Mig fighter used by the Romania?, What was best Mig used by the Romania?

What was best model Mig used by the Romanian Air Force and why? I voted for Mig-21M/MF Fishbed because of its service length, ability to be upgraded, low maintenance costs, and dogfighting ability!

This post has been edited by Stephen Dabapuscu on September 22, 2009 09:02 pm

I voted for the Mig-29, the only one that could stand as equal (almost) against any other fighters, because of the maneuvrability and BVR weapons.
I was anyway very inclined to vote the 21, because of the service lenght, significance in numbers, also capability after the LanceR upgrade.

This post has been edited by Hadrian on September 22, 2009 07:19 pm

actually the MiG-29A quite sucks at BVR.
your probably meant WVR where, during the 90ies the MiG29 with Archer was the best aircraft for that scenario, until newer designs came along.

R-27 Alamo isn`t the best BVR missile indeed, indeed. But it was the only one we had up to the moment. Even the LanceR carries only MAGIC-2`s and Phyton-3`s...

The Mig-29 is great choice, it would be my second pick! However the fact that the Mig-21M/MF out lasted it, in my mind puts it a head!

All of the Migs models in this poll were equal to any fighter in their day? from the Mig-15 to the Mig-29 Fulcrum!

Who says the Mig-29 sucks at BVR combat? The Mig-29A 9-12 was designed to out-fight the F-16A/B and F/A-18A/B, which it could! The early F-16A's had no bvr ability, and F/A-18A was out-ranged the Fulcrum. Both in terms of radar and aam's.

"Jane's MIG-29: At the Controls" by Jon Lake

"Jane's MIG-29: At the Controls" by Jon Lake

Based on what? show me the paragraph!

Anyway BVR has always been mostly theory, not reality!

based on pilot experiences who flew both aircraft and common exercises with the MiG-29 squadrons of the luftwaffe.
you might want to look up the pages about sensors.
can't show you online, as i have the book printed.

the radar of the MiG-29B (which is the one we got) is rather rudimentary compared to the western equivalents. that is coupled with a rather average R-27 missile, which, because of radar limitations couldn't be used at max. range.

As I said its nothing more then theory! And this not the latest model Mig-29 flying against newer upgraded NATO fighters! As I already said the Mig-29A 9-12 was designed to out-fight the F-16A and F/A-18A hornet. The Isreali's admit that even the Mig-23MF was superior to the origanal F-16A BVR combat, because the First F-16's had no BVR capability! And in BVR combat between the F/A-18 armed with AIM-7F sparrows and the Mig-29 Fulcrum armed with AA-10 alomo's, the Mig-29A is superior!

Thank you

This post has been edited by Stephen Dabapuscu on September 22, 2009 10:20 pm

certainly it is not the latest. but if you look at the topic of the thread you created, it was about the best MiG used by Romania. Which would be the MiG-29B i was talking about.
nowadays the "west" would bring modernized versions too.

in a BVR engagement NATO pilots rated the MiG-29/AA-10 "a sparrow level of threat". AMRAAM became available in the early 90ies, from then it's game over. therefore, if you rate the Alamo better than the Sparrow (i have no idea if the F-16 and the F-18 could carry the Phoenix), then the MiG-29 enjoyed a window of advantage of around 5 years.

This post has been edited by dead-cat on September 24, 2009 07:50 am

Not sure what you mean by "up to the moment", but MiG-23 MF was also BVR capable, with R-23R and R-23T.

Regarding the types in the poll, we never had any MiG-17A, just F and PF (12 each); and no MiG-19S, just P and PM. And by the way, the correct spelling of the type is MiG (Mikoyan i Gurievich), not Mig.

Comparing fighters from diferent generations is just plain useless
At the time of introduction into service with RoAF, each type brought some capability which was not available before, but that does not mean it was better than the previos models in all aspects.

This post has been edited by Vici on September 23, 2009 09:24 am

Speaking of the MiG-29, did Romanian ever sell hers to anyone or are they still in storage?

If it is of any interest, I know that Navy F-14 pilots treated the MiG-29 with great respect. They considered it equal and only the pilot's ability made the difference in a fight. They trained with former East German MiG-29 pilots in mock combat, as practice in case they came in contact with Serbian MiG-29s, and they frequently lost. I read this in "Black Aces High" by Robert Wilcox. It is about the combat over former Yugoslavia in 1999.

This post has been edited by PanzerKing on September 23, 2009 05:34 pm

17 Fulcrums are for sale (3 UB, 1 C and 14 A), while the Sniper upgrade prototype is at the Aviation Museum. There was some rumor a few years back about India being interested in a couple of UBs, but nothing came out of it.

dead-cat, you mentioned we got MiG-29B. Let's clear things up a bit.
the MiG-29 Fulcrum A had three sub-variants:
izdeliye (product):
9-12 for USSR use only
9-12A for Warsaw Pact and close allies (Cuba, North Korea)
9-12B for everybody else (Arabs)

The MiG-29 A we got in the first batch (12 A and 4 UB) delivered in 1989-1990 were 9-12A version. The other 4 we received in 1992 and 94 (IIRC) as attrition replacements (serials 33,38 and 35,54) were 9-12B, because MiG-29 was no longer in production and they had a lot of 9-12B built for Iraq and not delivered due to the Gulf War.

according to what i read, they said the B-12 was for the "allies", the version the GDR supposedly also got, with less capable avionics.
but i stand corrected.