What's next?, next war Romanians could be part of

True, but is also the home of Georgians who were deposed by their right to live on their own land, because they were there from the beginning, too. Take into account the case of many refugees from Abkazia and Ossetia (over 400000 people) who live today in unproper conditions.

The same problem came into wiew in Transnistria. Tens of thousands (I don't have an exact figure) ethnic Moldovans were forced to leave their land under the presure made by Smirnov and his gang. They live in Chisinau and other areas in difficult conditions. Can anybody deny their right to leave at their homes, now occupied by Cossacs and other people who came from entire Russia to protect the Smirnov gang?

The issue is less about the people with guns and more about what civilians inhabit a given area.

It's one thing to kick out Smirnov's "government". It's quite another thing when the majority of the Transdniester population, which is Ukrainian and Russian, would not want to be part of Romania/Moldova. What then,shoot the protesters?

It's not right to grab an entire land merely for the sake of a minority. We as Romanians should know better. And Moldovans in Transnistria are a minority, no two ways about it.

What applies to us,applies to others. It's hypocrisy to weep about Romanian majorities being subjugated by a foreign ruling minority and then in the same breath claim that an entire land where Romanians are a minority be conquered so that we can "protect the Romanian minority".

Hitler chopped up Czechoslovakia using the German minorities as a pretext.

This post has been edited by IAR80 on March 01, 2010 07:00 pm

We talk and we put it like a statement: Moldovans are in minority in Transnistria. Yes, true. But are the majority, in relative terms, in same Transnistria, because they are about 40%, Russian and Ukrains, about 30% each. This figures include the ones who will leave the same day Smirnov did, and do not include the Moldovans who will come back.

We are pretty sure that Ukrains will don't want to live under Moldovan rule. It is not really true. Look at the Ukraineans who live in northern part of the country. There are many villages where they are about 98% of population, and have many relatives who lived in Ukraine. I talked with many of them, and I asked them if they would like to live in Ukraine. They said (100%) that they would live here, because in Ukraine all is ruled by Mafia.

Well, Ukraine has its Mafia, we have Basescu. Same sh*t, different toilet. Those people would be very disappointed if they would come expecting less corruption in Romania. We have so much,we could export it easily.

This post has been edited by IAR80 on March 01, 2010 09:34 pm

I'm sorry, but I think you don't understand what means Russian or Ukrainean Mafia. I don't wish you to live in a society dominated by Mafia, like in Russia or Ukraine.
Your comparation is out of every kind of reality. Sorry, but our discusion is over, because I cannot have a dialog with someone who cannot understand the difference between two opposite sistems, one ruled by democracy rules, other ruled by mafiot groups.

No, no way, IAR80, but surely send some special police squads to calm them! With specific methods! Because if you go on the idea that their vote would be worth as a law, so they could can separate themselfs after the reunification of Moldova with Romania, than you must agree that today or tomorrow the Hungarians from the Szekely Region had the right to separate themselfs from Romania too.
Most of the Russians and part of the Ukraineans came in Transnistria only after the 50's and in the 80's and can leave to Russia or Ukraine if they want! Transnistria is romanian soil, as it is ukrainean soil too! But surely not russian! It's not propaganda it's a historical fact!

This is pointless talk since we're not going to get back Transnistria any time soon if ever. And that's good. The last thing we need would be a large non-Romanian population with secessionist goals ready to be aided by potentially hostile foreign powers.

The soil belongs to the people that actually control it.

Contras

Weapons stolen from storage depots (Ciorogarla) and you're telling me Romania isn't dominated by Mafia groups? Couldn't care less if these groups are embedded deep in the military or intel services,they're still a bunch of tools.

We are easily as far away from a functional democracy as any two-bit South American autocracy. And every bit as corrupt.

Grab your keys and go for a drive around town before praising Romanian "democracy".

ANDREAS

Transnistria is actually NOT Romanian land. Wasn't even part of Greater Romania and was under Ottoman,Russian even Polish-Luthuanian occupation before that.

Just because Romania was dragged through mud historically,it doesn't mean we are immune to expansionist impulses. Look at the Qadrilater, no way was that anything close to "ancient Romanian land", yet we grabbed it didn't we?

Oh and I wouldn't worry about the Szeklers. Declaring independence of a mountain enclave? Not exactly viable state material. What would they gain? A total blockade?

non-romanian (to generalize) majority has become a fact. in transnistria, in the ucrainean bucovina and in the ukrainean area bordering the black sea.
there is absolutely no chance whatsoever, given the animosity between russians, ukraineans and other smaller populations and romanians/moldavians, that any referendum in favour of joining romania will have the slightest chance of success.
it's great that the future treatment of minorities, in places poorer than albania, is being discussed in great detail, with a rethoric worth of the 1930ies, when a majority for the union has failed to materialize across the prut river, in the last 20 years, despite the increase of difference between relative wealth of the countries in question.

so far, any serious discussion was about autonomy. which is something entirely different.

This post has been edited by dead-cat on March 01, 2010 11:02 pm

The idea of a total blockade is out of the question since that would be against human rights and international law. Moreover, although the new "state" would not be recognized the people there would remain European citizens (became that in 2007) and Romania would not be able to restrict their movement.

The idea of a total blockade is out of the question since that would be against human rights and international law. Moreover, although the new "state" would not be recognized the people there would remain European citizens (became that in 2007) and Romania would not be able to restrict their movement.

It's how Dead-Cat wrote, the Szeklers want autonomy, not an independent state, which certainly would not be viable.

Gen. Dénes

Which brings us back to my earlier point that many Romanians do not understand the meaning of the word "federal" or "autonomy". Autonomy does not mean "split".
There are many federal unions of states that work perfectly, USA, UK, Australia, Germany. Let us take USA for example. Take any state, California for example: it is an independent republic, with its own laws, taxes, governor, borders, and two official languages. That does not make it less American. In other wors, it is autonomous, but still part of USA. It works.
Can federalism work in Romania? I doubt it, simply because the whole issue is driven by opinion, not by fact. The people who oppose autonomy for the Szekels do not even live anywhere near that land, never visited the place and do not have any interest of any kind there.
Incidentally, the same thing happens with every ethnic group in Europe who want authonomy.
Radu

A state comprising Harghita and Covasna counties would actually have a higher GDP than Kosovo and a slightly higher size! Not to mention that UDMR wants to include Mures alongside HarCov so that would make it even larger than Kosovo, both physically and financially.

it's not like HG+CV+part of MS are brimming with wealth. Other than wood, there is not much industry to speak of either.

Not so many roads, also... or in good shape...
I presume that IF they get autonomy, they ain't gonna get funding from the center, right? What then?