English light tanks in Romanian Army in WW2 ?

On the site "TANKS!", at the Romanian Tanks page are listed 2 types of English tanks supposebly used by Romanian Army in WW2. I'll post the pictures and the comments from that site:

Vickers 6 ton

Built under license agreement in Romania using parts manufactured by Vickers in the U.K.



Vickers Carden Loyd Mark VI Light Tank

Small quanities delivered in 1929 (type A), and 1931 (type .




Were those really used? In combat or just for training?

Dr. V, I don't believe any of those were used in combat. Atleast not in WW2. I could be wrong, but I've never seen their use mentioned.

I also doubt they were used. In fact, I'm not sure how accurate that info is. I'd be curious to get some hard data on their use, actual quantities involved, etc.
Seth

I know that this info is doubtfull, but the thing that draw my attention is the comment on the bottom of the 1st photo (Vickers 6 ton). The writting is in Romanian and using the old term "car de asalt" for "tanc" (tank). This writting is on the bottom of the photo and was scanned together with it, not added on the site. Looks like it was tiped or printed when the photo was published, the caracthers used are also a pretty old design.

This picture suggests that this particular tank was specially displayed to be photographed, as in the background there are no other elements to suggest a military base and there are no other vehicles or people around. A museum is also doubtfull, as the background is a forest. Maybe a training area?

I was hoping that Victor or Dragos could give me a clue to this strange photo.

This is my speculation, but they may be the models evaluated by Romania during the interwar period due to the plan for army modernization. However, none of these were contracted for purchase/production.

I've found some info in a book called "Tancuri si automobile" by gen. Gheorghe Stanescu and col. Dumitru Vochin (1978). On page 106 they mention that these tanks mentioned above "entered service immediately after their purchase in 1933".

The book is not very accurate however, I've found a number of errors.

Later edit: the photo with the Carden Loyd tankette is the same as the one found in the book I mentioned. Probably the authors used the same source: some encyclopedia from the 1930s or 40s, I don't remember the name.

This post has been edited by Mircea87 on August 25, 2011 12:11 pm

I have seen no indication of those tanks in the Romanian Army! Perhaps dragos is right - or perhaps it's just a "make-believe" serving the boasting of Romanian Armed Forces... In the book by Dumitru Vochină (the same guy that did "Reflecţii rutiere" some decades ago, I guess) there were no mentions about the numbers of each "tank" mentioned-above, right?
LE: no, that was Virgil Vochină! This Dumitru Vochin seems to have been an enthusiast of the subject, because I've found another book written by him in 1983, "Automobiles and performances". That doesn't add to the credibility of these "tanks" being owned by the romanians, though...

This post has been edited by MMM on August 25, 2011 03:44 pm

The picture of 6 ton Vikers tank is from Enciclopedia Romaniei ( Carols enc. ),pag 711.

You mean the one from 1938? That was very "propaganda-filled", something on the line of "măreţili realizări" of Ceausescu's Golden Age!
LE: it's also misspelt: "Vickers-Armstrong" would be the right spelling, without the extra "S"! So much for an Encyclopedia...

This post has been edited by MMM on August 25, 2011 05:40 pm

This case of Vickers-Armstrong 6-ton light tank is interesting from my point of view, since Romania was one of the few European countries who didn't use it or wasn't influenced by it. Course I don't mention the big powers who designed and build their own tanks (France, Germany, UK) of a different type but the bulk of small or medium countries (Poland, Greece, Finland, Portugal, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia -who build their own tanks influenced by the Vickers-Armstrong design, Italy -same as above, a.o.). Not to forget the big user -USSR! Why didn't we use it? Maybe because the czech Skoda was better...

That tank is probably the 7Tpdw. I suspect that training between Poland and Romania occured and a snap was taken and claimed for political reasons. OR
The British who had had success selling the design to the Poles thought they would try the Romanians to see if they could extend there contracts.

Either way, these never have seemed to used outside trials.

Uh... You mean the tank was Polish and photographed as if it were Romanian? It doesn't have visible insignias...

Indeed, there are no numbers given. Nonetheless, there are quite a few documents in this ebook: "Inzestrarea Armatei Romane in perioada interbelica. Documente, vol II, 1931-1935" which mention the advantages of Carden Loyd tankettes and the numbers required for the army. Seems like Romania was influenced by it, but not necessarily in terms of design. Romania purchased the ČKD AH-IV design, but as far as I remember, only one prototype was built from spare parts.

I think we shouldn’t so easily and radically dismiss the scientific value of Petre Gusti's (et al.) Enciclopedia României, relegating it to the propaganda works category. In my opinion, it was a remarkable accomplishment, regardless the fact that it was edited under the auspices of Carol II. With all his flaws, petty interests and mean influences, he was nevertheless a patron of arts and science, and many of his critics recognized that.

Nevertheless, the two armored vehicle are presented there in photos (the very definition of a hard evidence, I’d say), and to presume they were faked would be too much, I guess. On the other hand, official documents from that period (see the volume recently made available online about Romania’s defense policy in early 1930 - the link was added somewhere in the forum) mentioned very often at least one of the two vehicle, the Vickers-Carden-Lloyd tankette, in connection with various trials and projects for (re)organizing the Romanian armored and reconnaissance units. So my bet would be that, at least in small numbers and for trials, those two vehicles were used in the Romanian army of the 1930s.

Agarici, I didn't mean to blame the entire "Encyclopedia", ok? There undoubtedly are some good things in it, as well; keeping in mind it's the first such attempt in the history of Romania, it should be recognized!
But here's the catch: even if we had such a tankette as a trial vehicle, it's propagandistic to publish its photo as if it belonged to the Romanian Army.
OoT: it's as if one would get a Ferrari (well, maybe not Ferrari, but rather a VW Beetle... ) for a test run and take a photo with it, pretending to own it! Or large numbers of it...