Time for Russia to join NATO, German defense experts

Trans-Atlantic security needs have changed fundamentally in the last two decades. The East-West confrontation has ended, and Moscow now shares many interests with NATO. It is time for the alliance to open its doors to Russia, say German defense experts Volker Rühe, Klaus Naumann, Frank Elbe and Ulrich Weisser.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,682287,00.html

East-West confrontation may have ended for the West,not so for the present masters of Kremlin.At ieast in the media, where the tone is not much different from the eighties.The new military doctrine announced by Medvedev is very clear on this subject.Anyway Russia does not meet the political conditions for joining NATO,no free elections,no free media,no independent judicial system etc.

This post has been edited by guina on March 17, 2010 04:11 pm

Gorby had this to say, yesterday.

Perestroika Lost

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/opinion/...tml?ref=opinion

to your point; I think it's ironic germans should be proposing this on same day that chancellor Merkle proposes kicking Greeks out of EU if they don't want to sell some islands to get out of hock. lol (ok an exageration, but she seems to be making similar noises))

Loooooool!
Since when do we have an independent judicial system?!?! Only when we compare it with Russia or - say - North Korea, China, Vietnam or other asian countries does it seem of any good! The tone IS different from the eighties, perhaps because of the Internet access.
Anyway, the entire idea of Russia joining NATO in the foreseeable future is ludicrous. As probably would have been the idea of Romania joinig NATO in 1985

First at hand, Russia don't have the desire or the will to join NATO. For Russia the West remain the enemy who defeated it, and must take vengance.
Another matter is that russia don't fullfill NATO exigencies, it is not a demogracy, and the sistem is headed against any improvement.

Ha,ha,ha,MMM,I knew i'll get this observation,and you are 1000% right !But there is a diference,while russian "justice ( basmany sud ) is dependent on the Czar's whishes,ours is dependent on the size of graft !
As for the "tone " of russian media,with the notable exception of " Echo Moskvi "&RTVi,believe me,is not very different from the eighties.I'm not talking about Internet,Twitter,Facebook which i dont follow.
t.c.

Democracy?


It is not an American-Style democracy....



Romania should be more like Russia....more free and independent, Militarily Strong not in any alliance
Having American bases and letting others mess in her Internal affairs .. is that the Romania you plan to have?
Ceausescu was killed because his Ideas of Independence, Sovereignty and "other countries not messing with us and getting involved in our business" were too strong for some...

This post has been edited by Anton88 on March 19, 2010 02:15 am

of course the uprising against Ceasca had absolutely nothing to do with an impoverished and starving population deprived of even the most basic need, not to talk about free speech and other useless gains like personal freedom.

if it wasn't for the all well known international conspiracies, we'd all be rooting for a russian style democracy, where all the conterrevolutionaries, opposition journalists and other traitors get shot in broad daylight, by the exponents of the righteously furios proletariat. precisely what they deserve, so to speak.

other than that, who died so that Volker Rühe has been made a defence "expert"?

I agree that it would be difficult for Russia to join NATO. Not because of the fulfilment of standards thing but because Russia is already the leader of an alliance - CSTO - and seeks to maintain itself as a world power center with independent policies.

However it's clear that Russia wants a security arrangement with NATO. Possibly a non-aggression pact that would also recognize its sphere of influence.

You know how much the Russians trust non-aggression pacts, after the last war...

Anton88, you really believe that such thing is possible?
if we look back in history, tell me what you think was the period in which Romania reached these goals? About the present makes no sense to talk, but about future tell me how do you think we can achieve these objectives, taking into account the political, economic, demographic potential of our country or the geopolitical space in which we are?

Romania is more like Russia, it is more free and independent.
But Romania must be part of an alliance, and it is important it is part of NATO, as majority of Romanians want to be.
About democracy, please don't make any comparations with Russian's style, because you become awkward.

Anton88, you really believe that such thing is possible?
if we look back in history, tell me what you think was the period in which Romania reached these goals? About the present makes no sense to talk, but about future tell me how do you think we can achieve these objectives, taking into account the political, economic, demographic potential of our country or the geopolitical space in which we are?

Its not possible because deep down we have grown used to bowing our heads to everyone and kissing their asses to get favors...
(Capul plecat, sabia nu-l taie...),... put your head down, and you wont lose it..

We just "go along with whoever is strongest", ..and this mentality, I'm affraid affects future generations..and the Romania of Tomorrow

(You know if a people defeat every invader in hard and bloody wars,...the future generations that follow are very proud of their fathers... and again, if the same people are a nation of cowards that never win a war, that always get occupied by someone, or have a weak backbone to stand up to a foe... the future of such a people is doomed... and future generations, kids.. feel weak and ashamed, and eventually they don't give a damn what happens to their country or not...
Belonging to it, or being part of this race/ethnicity is no longer as meaningful as it once was...

=======================================================
I'm afraid that the kind of leaders and politicians we have today reflect what kind of people we are...
(Fiecare Tara, isi merita pe conducatorii pe care ii are)

and if we want better leaders, we need to improve our people....and do something so that future generations don't feel like a bunch of losers...

(my own [Romanian] cousin (a girl):
-believes Romanians are a bunch of assholes,
-does not give a damn about Romania or going there...
-does not want to have Romanian friends, or interesting in socializing with them..
-does not want to have children,
-and if Romania (and everything that has ever been Romanian... for a good few thousand years was to go up tomorrow in a big Nuclear cloud,.... she wouldn't even shed a tear)..


I just know this:

That whoever suppresses our National Identity, and our National resistance... ([b]Our will to continue to be Romanian, and do things our own way[b])
Whoever from the Outside world, that thinks we should live different, think different.... who try to impose their way of life on us, and their "Ideas"...

This is the enemy and he must be fought... there must be some resistance to him
(Paying tribute to the Turkish armies so they live us alone, is not the Romanian way)


And Americans and their view of the world..,... is far from being our friend
To me, they are like the modern Roman Empire... Oppressors
(and my ancestors have fought such oppressors)

This post has been edited by Anton88 on March 20, 2010 04:36 am

Anton88, please try to watch the language you use.

Please get back to the original topic.

Putting aside some ramblings on this topic, I think we should all be clear upon some simple things:
1. We (Romania) cannot, would not and should not be America or Russia, because of our history, geography, mentality and not least sheer number of people
2. Alliances were and are necessary for all countries, even USSR and USA; of course, asymetric alliances, but still...
3. NATO, right now -and in the next decade - doesn't have nor the intention nor the reason to invite Russia "in".
Please argue those things above...