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dan_531983 |
Posted: September 30, 2010 05:32 pm
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 16 Member No.: 2811 Joined: May 27, 2010 |
Hi,
This is my first post and I would like to say a story I heard from a veteran (army soldier, not prison guard) who was in the execution platoon of Antonescu on 1 June 1946. I found in books or internet the same story about the Antonescu's execution, all of them concluding the same thing which is presented on the Generals description of this site: "Marshal Antonescu asked to be shot by the army, but was refused and the firing squad was made up of 12 prison guards." Before telling the story just few questions: 1. do you believe that a man who knows he will die then asks to be shot by X,Y,Z? 2. assume that Antonescu asked to be shot by the army, then why to be refused? 3. assume that he was refused is bubious to ask 12 prison guards to execute the sentence on the spot!! Usually the execution platoon is known in advance. Now the story. (I dont say that is true but it seems more logic and I wold like to know your expert opinions). An army platoon was put to fire on Antonescu (this veteran was amongst them), but at the first command they refused to open fire. At the second command they shoot apart. Only after that happend immediately a russian car with 10 guards came and opened fire ... and from now on you can see everything on the archive movie (which do not contains this important story at his beggining). So the romanian soldiers/army refused to open fire on Antonescu and not Antonescu was refused to be shot by the army before the execution time as the history said. When I will go to my village I will ask which regiment was this veteran and his full name as he told me this story over 10 years ago. Regards, Dan. |
MMM |
Posted: September 30, 2010 05:55 pm
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General de divizie Group: Members Posts: 1463 Member No.: 2323 Joined: December 02, 2008 |
Hi, dan!
What proof do you have for these affirmations? I mean, they're quite hard to prove. How comes then that Romanian soldiers arrested Antonescu on 23.08? -------------------- M
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dan_531983 |
Posted: September 30, 2010 06:12 pm
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 16 Member No.: 2811 Joined: May 27, 2010 |
The only proof is the story I said above...just a story from a honest old man.
(I don't say that it is true as a transcript, but at least made me courious...and it seems more logic than history said "Antonescu was refused to be shot by the army"...do you think that somebody cares hwo will shoot Antonescu on 1.06.946...and even in USA on death penalty the last wish is respected). Now I will repons to your question: There are different feelings when a soldier is asked to arrest someone (it is possible to arrest someone for protection) than when a soldier is asked to shoot someone...very big difference I think as I didn't arrest nor shoot anybody!! Thanks, Dan. |
bansaraba |
Posted: September 30, 2010 06:33 pm
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Sergent Group: Members Posts: 184 Member No.: 2196 Joined: July 20, 2008 |
The execution was carried away according to Regulation no. 12 from 27 April 1942 regarding the rules for execution ("normele de urmat la executarea pedepsei cu moartea").
The platoon consisted of 30 guards from the Detachment Group of Public Guards of Bucharest (Grupul de Detasamente de Gardieni Publici Bucuresti), commander major Meriu Valentin. The commander of the 30 men was Frugina Vasile, the very one we see in the footage of the execution shooting the 4 men in the head. I can't find the exact date or circumstance where Antonescu asked to be shot by the army. His final wish was not to be tied or blindfolded during the execution. Besides, the authorities had organized some random polls among several army units. Here are the results: - before 15 May 1946: the officers of Ploiesti garrison were ordered to write down if they are for or against the execution of Ion and Mihai Antonescu. They said the situation was delicate as they all had to be in favor, against their true will. - 22 May 1946, Odorhei garrison: voted twice by raising hands, all against execution except the delegate of the M. St. M. - 29 May 1946, Pioneer Marines Battalion (Batalionul de Geniu Marina): secret vote, 80% against execution, 20% pro execution. - 1 June 1946, Instruction Center of the BorderGuards: All but one against the execution. And here's more: |
dan_531983 |
Posted: September 30, 2010 07:09 pm
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 16 Member No.: 2811 Joined: May 27, 2010 |
Thanks bansaraba, I did't know this usefull information.
Do you say that this 30 guards from the Detachment Group of Public Guards of Bucharest opened fire and killed Antonescu + his followers ? Please confirm, as it is not very clear for me what happened just minutes/seconds before the death of Antonescu. Your attachements state the preparations before the execution time. Thanks again, Dan. |
Victor |
Posted: September 30, 2010 07:36 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
Common sense should tell you how to interpret the text. Antonescu was not locked up by the Army, but by the civilian authorities. Thus the Army was not in a position to refuse or fulfill his desire (according to some sources) to be shot by soldiers, because it had no jurisdiction or power for that matter. The civilian authorities refused and had him shot by their own men. |
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MMM |
Posted: September 30, 2010 08:13 pm
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General de divizie Group: Members Posts: 1463 Member No.: 2323 Joined: December 02, 2008 |
AFAIK, in his own "political will", written after his arrest, Antonescu himself wrote about being handcuffed by "o brută de plutonier". Only after that was he handed to "ing. Ceauşu"/Bodnăraş and from there to Soviet hands and so on. I'm not sure whether he lost his rank or not as a result of the (civilian) trial... -------------------- M
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RedBaron |
Posted: September 30, 2010 10:20 pm
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Fruntas Group: Members Posts: 95 Member No.: 2425 Joined: March 18, 2009 |
Interesting!
Dan, do ask the veteran all the details... maybe with further research you could validate some of the ideas in this story. Or at least make it more plausible! |
Montbrun |
Posted: October 01, 2010 03:00 am
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 43 Member No.: 2755 Joined: March 01, 2010 |
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dan_531983 |
Posted: October 01, 2010 06:18 am
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 16 Member No.: 2811 Joined: May 27, 2010 |
From this movie and other movies that I know is presenting only the road/walk to the place of execution and the the moment when Antonescu falls on the ground. It is not shown hwo opened fire!! This is my dilemma. I will try to talk again with the man who told me the story (if it will be possible, if not I will talk to his family). |
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Radub |
Posted: October 01, 2010 08:19 am
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General de corp de armata Group: Members Posts: 1670 Member No.: 476 Joined: January 23, 2005 |
Read the "responses" to that video ... Why does it matter how he was shot and by whom? He was shot, which is a more fiiting death for a soldier. Others like him were hanged elsewhere. Radu |
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bansaraba |
Posted: October 01, 2010 11:42 am
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Sergent Group: Members Posts: 184 Member No.: 2196 Joined: July 20, 2008 |
You can see in that footage, which by the way was heavily censored, that Vasile Frugina became Alexandru Rugina!! Also, the platoon can be seen right before 2:00.
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