Well made film, When you have gun control....

Yes, the Banaters had a soft atitude toward hungarian revolution in 1848. Eftimie Murgu, the leader of Banat romanian 1848 revolution, had a mild atitude toward hungarian revolution and actually except the Lugoj gathering, there was no more sign of romanian revolution in Banat. The latter events in Banat regarding 1848 revolution were related to austrian army fighting hungarians. Eftimie Murgu was targeted by hungarian revolutionary leaders to be atracted on hungarian side. Some romanians claimed later that E Murgu had "sold himself" to hungarians and he was looked unreliable for the romanian cause.

I largely agree with your assumption, 21inf. However, the picture was not that black and white. For example, not all Rumanians were against the Hungarian troops and administration - at least at the beginning.

As proof, here is a photo taken in my mother's native village, where a Rumanian boy (marked with a black arrow) can be seen greeting the Honvéds entering the village of Teke on 9 Sept. 1940.



Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on February 16, 2011 07:49 pm

I am sure that not all hungarians disagreed the come-back of romanian administration in 1944, but this doesnt change significantly the general overview of the feelings diferent ethnicities had toward each other. Anyway, a little boy could salute any soldiers, as he is a child and most probably doesnt make any diference between who are the soldiers entering his village.

PS: how do you know that the pointed boy is romanian? He is not in national clothes (port popular). Do you know who he is?

My mother identified him as such, and I have no reasons to doubt her (he was caught by the camera by chance, there might have been more like him among the greeters lined up along the Nagyidai street, who knows?). And I am pretty sure he knew who those soldiers in strange looking uniform are...

Just imagine, if he did something despicable to his fellow Rumanian ethnics by saluting the Hungarian troops, how would his peers look at him? Would he risk doing something for which he would have been outcast? When you're a youngster, peer pressure is paramount.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on February 16, 2011 08:09 pm

Well, not all romanians were so ferocious anti-hungarian as not all hungarians were so deeply anti-romanian. There are individuals and individuals in all nations, from one extreme to the other extreme, having in the middle the main part of their conationals.

My grandpa from Sălaj had nothing against hungarians and he had never spoke a bad word against them even after some hungarian elements killed his family. He was also initially saved by his old hungarian neighbour. Why he didnt spoke anything bad against those who killed his family, I cant figure out. Why he didnt joined romanian army to fight back hungarians after loosing his family to them, I also dont know. Why he never hunted down those who killed his family (he knew them by their names, as they were his neighbours) I dont know. I know just that he kept living a humble life as a poor iliterate peasant.

I think it is time to tell what our history teacher from high school, a person which was known by common sense, moderate attitudes and and tolerance, and who told us only once his memory about cession of Northern Transylvania in september 1940. He was then a child 7 years old (primary school) and and lived in Salonta, a city with a majority Hungarian population. He remembers with displeasure that he lost in a few days (end august) most of his pals he played with in the neighborhood, all Hungarians. Worse than that he was mocked and even hit by his former hungarian buddies he played with in the Kindergarten, and then he don't understand why... also remembered the family extreme fear not so much from the hungarian military administration but from the neighbors who became enemies over night... this aspect was something new for us and was was hard to find in the analysis or stories about that tragic events.

Regarding the feelings of the Sachsen toward hungarians, here is a ballad published by a saxon from Kronstadt/Brasov in the interwar period, about the execution after a process simulation of Pastor Roth in Klausenburg/Cluj:

http://www.sibiweb.de/ge_mu/slr_ball.htm

Rather only in german. Tells about seckler guards with bayonets...

Most of the perpetrators received a swift punishment by the hand of other germans (well, austrians) before an execution squad months later. Unfortunately, some (like Bem and Kosuth) got away by running.

Nobody mess with the Sachsen...

Anyway, in ww2, most of the saxons fought with the germans. One of the cousins of my mother did it also, returned from Russia only long years after the war.

I almost forgot to say that he was fluent in Hungarian, even as child, as his entire family was... so that this (language issue) can't be a reason. Then he said, he first heard the famous expression "budos olah" from his pals... He believes that the reason can be in the person of his father who was then a romanian teacher...

Transylvania is an unique culture of mixed romanian, hungarian and german sources, a kind of Switzerland of the east. The place where one can eat a decent Sarmale, gulash (mmmh) and schnitzel, drink good wine, palincă or beer, with people living in peace for centuries, without caring about what language is spoken at home by his neighbour. I love it this way, and hope to remain so in the future.

Unfortunately, from time to time, some frustrated politicians from outside Transylvania (be them from Budapest or Bucharest) choose to agitate the waters. Then, it is some, or all, of the transylvanians who have to suffer the consequences....

This post has been edited by Hadrian on February 16, 2011 09:23 pm

unfortunately without the Kanton structure.

There were the Sieben Stuhle, as a model. It worked ok.

This post has been edited by Hadrian on February 16, 2011 10:44 pm

unfortunately without the Kanton structure.

I'd say that it is a mixture (as much as it is) especially because tha lack of a canton structure. But this is an entirely different story.

My mother identified him as such, and I have no reasons to doubt her (he was caught by the camera by chance, there might have been more like him among the greeters lined up along the Nagyidai street, who knows?). And I am pretty sure he knew who those soldiers in strange looking uniform are...

Just imagine, if he did something despicable to his fellow Rumanian ethnics by saluting the Hungarian troops, how would his peers look at him? Would he risk doing something for which he would have been outcast? When you're a youngster, peer pressure is paramount.

Gen. Dénes

I think it is perfectly plausible that the boy was Romanian. My only observation, as already said earlier, is that this thing is irrelevant. In my opinion is that Denes theory with the despicable fact and the pressure from the peers is, in this case, built into thin air. We cannot expect such a precise and complex insight from some teenagers. Their perception, back then and at that age, wasn’t our perception from today, and not even that of their parents. What I think can be said is that they were in no way means inherently anti-Hungarian. In the meantime, they were too young/immature to have a solid political perception/interpretation of the reality. Not to mention the fact that the young kids (boys) are fascinated by soldiers, weapons, uniforms, the army and the like.

An example: my father (5 years old in 1940) told me how he and his peers, mostly Romanians but Hungarians too, gather near the railway station from the small town of Năsăud when the trains with German troops moving towards the frontline were passing, giving the German/Nazi salute. The result: a shower of chocolates and candies, thrown by the soldiers from the train. But I do not think that made them (young) Nazi sympathizers.

By the way, in/after 1940 my old man experience himself, for the first time, the same “famous” “budos olah” label. The somewhat strange thing was that he wasn’t called like that by his playing mates, but by some of their patents, after he/they did some of their childish goofs.

This post has been edited by Agarici on February 17, 2011 12:22 am

Are the troops in the photo Hungarian? Then how come they (and the Hungarian civilians) are using the German (Roman?) salute, if it wasn't a common form of salute for the Hungarians? Couldn't they be Germans, passing through the village at a later date?

Also, what type of truck/car is that? There is an inscription above the radiator, which I cannot see clearly.

This post has been edited by Agarici on February 17, 2011 12:38 am

The soldiers are certainly Hungarian and the truck is a Hungarian-made Raba Botond (note the steering wheel located at right). The precise date and location is also known: 9 Sept. 1940, Nagyidai utca (street).
The Hungarian soldier does not use the straight arm salute (which, by the way, was done with the right hand), he merely salutes the cheering crowd.

Since Teke was predominantly a Saxon village, I assume the lady at right, with keys in her hand, was a Saxon - hence the 'German salute'.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. As for the "budos olah" pejorative, unfortunately that was used occasionally, I've also heard about that. Should I now mention the even more "famous" and widely used word of "bozgor", used by Rumanians against Hungarians, what I personally (not only my grandparents) "experienced" (the very first time in the army, and back then I wasn't even aware of its meaning)?
There is no need for that, as stupid and incult people, easily influenced by daily politics, exist everywhere...

This post has been edited by Dénes on February 17, 2011 07:16 am