British ww2 POW odd testimony

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_auschwitz_book

Whats odd about it?

Kevin in Deva.

I he indeed wanted to document nazi crimes, as he declsred why he risked his life, why doesnt he speak how he used what he saw, to put some nazis in jail. Moreover, I personally never heard about such story before, for me this is strangelly unique and out of pattern.

It sounds strange to me, too.
Reportedly then, you could walk in and out of the extermination camp, if you had 25 cigarettes.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 02, 2011 06:39 am

If I recall correctly there is evidence of a Polish man who voluntarily smuggled himself into Auschwitz Concentration Camp, not once, but twice, to take notes pictures of what was happening there, which then were presented in the U.S.A. to members of the American Government about the Final Solution the Nazis had adopted, they were rejected out of hand, as nobody could conceive that a highly intelligent and respected race of people like the Germans could ever contemplate such barbaric inhumane actions against their fellow man.

With regards Mr. Avery:-

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/03/wo...witz3-2010apr03

Kevin in Deva.

In the case of the polish man, at least he took some pics as evidence. The british guy had no proof, just what he saw, so it was only his word. His atitude seems to me odd, why to risk his life in such a manner, it is like a kind of Zorro atitude in a time when probably the crimes in nazi KZ were already known. I didnt see in the interview if he used the info he collected with so great risks.

The Germans are not a separate race, they are part of the Caucasian race (the Jews are also parts of). The Germans are rather a nation, irrespective of citizenship.

Gen. Dénes

In one book I read in the past, a former ww2 soldier (posibly a fictious character), fighting in Vietnam, donated a sum of money to a confesional school from South America. When the priest in charge with the school asked the donor what to do with the money, the soldier said: Why do you ask me if it be good to spent my donated money to the children's education? Buy candies with my money and give the candies to the children, buy them toys and let them play, buy them a ball and let them play football everyday. In ww2 I saw action in Europe and all the weapons they used against me were made by educated people. All the V2 rockets were invented by educated engineers. All the medical experiments and horrors I saw in german concentration camps were conducted by educated doctors. So, let the children play, this is the education I want to give to them.

Now that's smart !

I didnt expected everybody to understand. The character I described above looks quite similar to the anti-heroes from Joseph Heller's "Catch 22".

There was an explanation in the article about why he did not want to talk about that for years - which I find, at the psichological level, plausible. I think, 21 inf, that we’d better refrain from making judgments about “what he should had done” in order to make possible for the culprits to be apprehended, etc. Apparently the story was corroborated with that of a survivor, whose life was indeed bought (and saved) by several packs of cigarettes by Avey. It seems that it was possible to get “in-and-out” an extermination camp with 50 cigarettes, but only in this order and in a complete in-and-out combination. Should we expect (too) much logic from an environment like that (and in that particular respect I’m surprised by some of the posts from here)?

Perhaps it’s only me who think this way, but I do believe that the people with such a life story deserve some good degree of decency and deference when we are referring to them, and not the “why didn’t they talk, take pictures, made a petition, did something else?” type of approach - especially if they are still alive. Don’t want to sound like a elementary school moralizer, one could believe their story or not, but questioning their actions would be to much, in my oppinion. What if the story is, nevertheless, true? Shouldn’t we all owe them some respect, since they, in their way, observed the laws of humanity widely neglected by the rest?

This post has been edited by Agarici on April 03, 2011 10:48 am

I didnt intented to emit any judgment. I just expressed my opinion that the story is odd from my personal point of view. Any other opinions are welcome and they are 100% ok. I just stumbled upon this interview and made it known on this forum.

From my part, no comment on the interview is ok, as are any type of comments. That's why this forum exists.

The Germans are not a separate race, they are part of the Caucasian race (the Jews are also parts of). The Germans are rather a nation, irrespective of citizenship.

Gen. Dénes

Where did I claim they were a separate anything in my post?

perhaps if I wrote . . . a highly intelligent and respected tribe of people like the Germans . . .

The point being that people did go into the camps at great risk other than the victims be they Russian POW's, Jewish, Communists, Gypsy, Homosexual, Non-conformist, captured members of the S.O.E. etc . . etc . .

@ 21 inf

At end of WW2 and immediately afterward many lists of those guilty of committing war-crimes and genocide were being compiled, Mr. Avery as a serving soldier did as proforma dictated he reported what he saw to a superior officer in the British military,
getting no response, he then proceeded to do what many other survivors were busy doing, getting back to meeting family and friends and trying to start their life anew.

There were no British organisations in place for him to continue his efforts to report the matter such as the Simon Wiesenthal organisation, and as can be seen under the lust for hunting down people officially faded very quickly.

So a lone British military WW2 veteran was not going to get to far in a one man campaign.

Kevin in Deva.

Kevin, I think the problem is more complex than the way you have presented it.

1. The U.S.A. of 1944 was not the U.S.A. as it is today. By summer of 1944, the American government knew quite well about what was happening in Auschwitz. An air raid targeting the railroads converging to the entrance to Auschwitz could stop for many weeks the flow of trains with Jews sent there for extermination. However, the persons to approve this air raid decided the goal does not worth the raid.

2. In the spring of 1944, the leaders of the SS sent Jewish envoys to present to the British a "trade off" plan. The ratio of the bargain: 100 Jews in exchange for one transport truck. They expected to obtain 10,000 transport trucks in exchange for the 1,000,000 Jews living in what was then Hungary (i.e. Hungary as it is today, plus the WWII territorial gains).
The British did not accept the trade, for several reasons. Unfortunately, one of the reasons was that they would have to take care of and settle into the British Empire 1,000,000 undesired people.

Waiting the British answer, Himmler and Eichmann delayed the "final solution" for about two months. After the deal was clearly rejected by the British officials, the 1,000,000 Jews living in what was then Hungary got their fate as we know it today.

This post has been edited by Florin on April 04, 2011 02:21 am

Now that's smart !

My gut feeling tells me that this soldier have some problems with education himself.
I wanted to add something in regard to "...let the children play, this is the education I want to give to them", but it would be sarcastic and it may sound biased.
However, this story also reminded me that in the countries with really poor people, before thinking how to educate a poor child you have to think how to feed him/her to live for another day.

This post has been edited by Florin on April 04, 2011 03:00 am