soviet ultimatum to Romania

[quote]Alexandru H. wrote :

[quote]Unfortunately, not all parties are build from an ethnic foundation (like the Legion)[/quote]

At least, to be representative of a people's interests, it must have the base : be made of a majority of local ethnics, otherwise it represents foreign interests. At that time, the communists were representing Moscow's expansionist policy.[/quote]

after the great anti-semitic purges of Stalin and after the retreat of the red army form Romania, romanian communism became a 100% romanian business.
:ro:
so maybe we didn't bring communism into the country, but we sure continued it very methodically and with desastrous effects until 1989.
so it's no use blaming the jews : " they started it" :nope:
. Because we continued it...big time.

mg 42 :

[quote]after the great anti-semitic purges of Stalin and after the retreat of the red army form Romania, romanian communism became a 100% romanian business.
[/quote]

False ; many old dignitaries who remained in power were of Jewish origin.

For example, at the III'rd Congress of the Romanian Worker's Party, on Tuesday June 21, 1960, in the chiefs of the Congress were the following Jews :

-Apostol Gheorghe
-Borila Petre
-Coliu Dumitru
-Draghici Alexandru
-Isac Martin
-Moghioros Alexandru
-Pantelie Maria
-Pas Ion
-Rautu Leonte
-Salajan Leontin
-Trofin Virgil
-Voitec Stefan (not sure - maybe Romanian)

(see Scinteia, Anul XXIX Nr. 4866, Marti 21 Iunie 1960, 8 pagini - 40 de Bani :mrgreen: )

[quote]so maybe we didn't bring communism into the country, but we sure continued it very methodically and with desastrous effects until 1989.
so it's no use blaming the jews : " they started it"
. Because we continued it...big time.[/quote]

When you make big statements of the type "black/white" like socialism was only a disaster etc., please bring sources and proofs because it is an opinion, not a fact.

Getu'

on what grounds do you say these people were of jewish origin?

mg 42 wrote :

[quote]on what grounds do you say these people were of jewish origin?[/quote]

Their names, my dear, their original names!

-Apostol Gheorghe (Gerschwin)
-Borila Petre
-Coliu Dumitru
-Draghici Alexandru (Dulbergher)
-Isac Martin
-Moghioros Alexandru (Moghiorosch)
-Pantelie Maria
-Pas Ion
-Rautu Leonte (Oigenstein)
-Salajan Leontin (Silaghi)
-Trofin Virgil
-Voitec Stefan (not sure - maybe Romanian)

Getu'

P.S. : You can also add Silviu Brucan (Saul Bruckner), Alexandru Barladeanu, Grigore Raceanu, Valter Roman Neulander (father of Petre Roman), Sergiu Celac, V. Tismaneanu (Tesmenetski)... All from USSR :laugh: ...

Yeah, it is true. The only Romanian was Gheorghiu Dej. That is the reason for his chosing as a leader. Other even had diffculties in talking correctly in romanian. Someone interested in this topic should read Dennis Deletant "Romania under the comunist rule". I think there are more books of the same author.

This book treats pretty well the topic. Beside it will give you an ideea about the Romanian Communist Party. I don't remeber the exact words, but one of the ideeas was that in the moment in which the Soviets presented the ultimatum to Romania in 1940 the RCP, being ordered, supported this claim. As a result it was seen as a party of foreigners, and the numbers of its members decreased to around 300 (from 1500). It needed the soviet tanks to get to power in Romania. There were not too many romanians in the party.

That is the same excuse Dej and Ceausescu used it to explain the 1948-1952 criminal acts: those were the acts of the jews, good romanians like us are innocent...Crap :blbl:

The Communist system was criminal through its own nature, it didn't require jews, germans or nubians to work...As seen in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the human material can be as diverse as possible, crime is a feature from which everything else derives...

Can we get back on topic?

The ultimatum was an act of enormous cowardice, just four days after France(Romania's protector) was defeated.

It's true what they say about the jews starting their own war against the Romanians, they acted so violently 'cause stalin promissed them a jewish sovietic republic between the Prut and the Bug, it's no joke just read Paul Goma's Saptamana Rosie.

What is the source for this statement: "stalin promissed them a jewish sovietic republic between the Prut and the Bug" ?

Generalizations aren't productive. I wouldn't go so far to say "Jews", but "some Communist sympathizers, of which a part were Jews". There were over 200,000 Jews in Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina and certainly only a small part of them actually killed or beat up Romanian soldiers or refugees and in some cases there are even names of the individuals mentioned.

My grandmother fled with her sister and mother from a village near Telenesti all the way to Iasi and she did not see anything similar to the events portrayed by Goma.

Throughout his book Goma repeats the idea of the Jewish Republic in Bessrabia, but I did not see (maybe I missed it) any actual reference to an official document. I wouldn't take for granted anything he writes, as he obviously has some bias.

OK, not all the jews, most of them, 90%, there are documents and testimonies of the survivors - almost all the crimes and violences commited against the Romanian soldiers and civilians were made by jews(it's true a tiny part was made by bulgarians). Almost all the communist sympathizers were jews, I sayd almost 'cause there were some bulgarians too.

How do you explain the sudden fierce hatred of the majority of the jewish population(80-90%) for the Roumanians, very tolerant people who never did anything bad to the jews, never persecuted them????? There is only one answer: stalin promised them(for gaining their support) a jewish socialist sovietic republic between the Prut river and the Bug river including northen Bucovina.
Maybe you find another logical expanation for the violences, crimes and the jews(not the russians) shouting: we want Moldova as far as the "Seret"(Siret).

At that time there was no israel state.

Read the book(it has all the documents you need) and some testimonials of the time(the articles of Iorga, Carol's II diary) for more information.

This post has been edited by Le_Conducator on January 18, 2005 09:18 pm