Serbs in the Austro-Hungarian army

[Najroda]

Since Romania only declared war on Austria-Hungary in 1916, it is understandable that ethnic Romanians were drafted, like al other men in the monarchy, untill 1916 probably without much difficulties.

However, what was the situation with the Serbs in the monarchy? The situation must have been quite different than with the Romanians since Serbia and A-H were at war from the beginning. In Hungary proper (excl. Croatia) allone (mostly in Vojvodina) there were more than 400.000, which probably means close to 100.000 men that could carry arms. And then there were even more in Croatia (Krajina, Srem) and Bosnia. According to one of my books, in 1910 there were a total of 2.051.800 Serbs living various parts of the monarchy, which was 39,6% of all the Serbs at the time. How did A-H handle them during the war years?[/size][size=7]

[petru]

Probably they were not too eager to fight for AH. A Serbian division, made of POW fought very well in Dobrogea. They shot they wounded rather than falling POW at the Germans (or Bulgarians). Similarly the Slav regiments in the AH army had a very high rate of desertions. At the beginning of the war some Czech detachments sent against Romania fraternized with the Romanians rather than fighting. Similarly during 1916-1917 winter, deserters from Bosnian regiments were showing up almost every morning. If they were caught deserting they were hanged.

Following the Russian revolution the POW which volunteered to fight against Central Powers and were caught during the Austrian advance, were executed. Some volunteers (among them a Romanian corp) retreated through Siberia and were evacuated from Vladivostok, which was occupied by Japanese troops stayed till 1922.

[dead-cat]

QUOTE

Similarly the Slav regiments in the AH army had a very high rate of desertions.

someone (from slovenia) posted on axishistory sometime ago that this did not apply to slovenian units.

[Najroda]

QUOTE

QUOTE Similarly the Slav regiments in the AH army had a very high rate of desertions.   someone (from slovenia) posted on axishistory sometime ago that this did not apply to slovenian units.

I can easily imagine the average Slovenian, having a higher standard of living than, say, the average Spaniard or Italian of that time, not to be very enthusiastic about the idea of being ruled from Belgrade instead of Vienna.

The same applied to a much lesser extent to Serbs and Romanians in A-H. They too had a considerably higher standard of living than their brethren in their respective homelands, but in their cases nationalist feelings were stirred up to a much higher level, exactly because of the existence of such homelands (none in the case of Slovenia).

[rcristi]

I don't wanna be disrespectful my friend, but I don't think that rumanian from AH had a higher standard of living than the ones from the Rumanian kingdom. The standard of living in Rumania in those times was quite higher, even during the WW2. Everything went wrong in this respect after the soviet invasion.

[dead-cat]

well it all comes down to the standard question, what was the romanian GDP/capita in 1910-1914?

as i posted before on axishistory, for Austra-Hungary:

the GDP/capita 1913 in 1990 Intl. $ is for:

Austria 2,222
Hungary 1,722


note that the romanian GDP/capita 1990 was 1257$ as OECD reports in 1993.

[dead-cat]

another thing i found here http://www.wiiw.ac.at/balkan/files/Gligorov1.pdf

National product per capita in 1910, US dollar (1970 value)
Germany 958
Serbia 462
Italy 546
Greece 455
Russia 398

Austria-Hungary:
Czech lands 819
Austria 810
Dalmatia 650
Hungary 616
Bosnia 546
Croatia 542
Transylvania 542

no figures for Galicia

Source: Palairet, The Balkan Economies. CUP, 1997, p. 233.

[dragos]

dead-at, it does not come down to GDP.

It's about the official discrimination regarding Romanians, by the lack of rights compared to other nationalities in Transylvania.

[Najroda]

It's indeed not only about GDP, but also about social and educational factors. For example the illiteracy rate in Serbia and Romania at the turn of the century was higher than among Serbs, resp. Romanians in Hungary. More books in the Serb and Romanian language were printed in Hungary than in Serbia and Romania themselves, etc. Administrationon the local and regional level were mostly in the minority language, where minorities formed the majority of the population (imagine that in Mures, Harghita and Covasna today!).

On the other hand it is true that Serbs and Romanians were less "advanced" than the average population of Hungary, because for example higher education was only available in Hungarian, and knowledge of the Hungarian language was a requirement for most "intelectual" and public jobs. Not unreasonable IMO (today Romania is requiring the exact same from it's minorities), but it is a definite disadvantage for minority members.

[dead-cat]

well i think, and several economist agree, that the GDP/capita is a pretty good criteria for comparing the standard of living.

[Najroda]

QUOTE

well i think, and several economist agree, that the GDP/capita is a pretty good criteria for comparing the standard of living.

It indeed is, but I doubt there are seperate GDP data broken down by nationality. On the other hand, such figures do exist on illiteracy rates, that's why I used that example. I am currently trying to remember where I read them, so I can post them here

[dragos]

Najroda, it is unreasonable to compare the (very bad) situation of Romanians in Transylvania as part of A-H empire, with the situation of minorities in Romania now. But this is getting off-topic.

[Victor]

QUOTE

well it all comes down to the standard question, what was the romanian GDP/capita in 1910-1914?

I think you are wrong. It comes down to comparing how they lived from 1919 onwards compared to how they lived before. The simple fact that the peasants received land through the Land Reform after the war meant that they had a better condition, not too mention the fact that they could vote and were involved in the way the country was run.

[dragos]

QUOTE

More books in the Serb and Romanian language were printed in Hungary than in Serbia and Romania themselves, etc.

How can you know that ?

[dead-cat]

i commented this affirmation:

QUOTE

I don't wanna be disrespectful my friend, but I don't think that rumanian from AH had a higher standard of living than the ones from the Rumanian kingdom.

while intresting to know, i fail to see how the post-1918 lifestyle fits in this particular question.