First ARR victory...

[C-2]

I hope this topic won't generate into a nationalist one...
The first kill of an ARR fighter was made by a He 112 flown by Polizu Micsunesti ,who intercepted a Hungarian bomber in 1940 over Arad ,after the anexation of the Ardeal to Hungary.
Polizu was awarded the "MIhai Viteazul"order from the king Carol II.
Does someone know more details?

[Victor]

Actually none of the things you said are true.
Polizu did not intercept the Hungarian Ca-135 over Arad, but over Debrecen, inside Hungary. It was in August 1940 and before the Vienna Diktate, so NW Transylvania still belonged to Romania (Polizu took off from Someseni, an airfield near Cluj). He did not shoot it down, but only damaged it. He was not awarded the Mihai Viteazul Order 3rd class by Carol II, but by Mihai I and in 1941 (or 1942) for his exploits during the 1941 campaign, when he was the top scoring ace (one does not get the MV Order for only one kill)

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/polizu/polizu.htm

[Florin]

Considering the title of the topic started by C-2: "First ARR victory",
we should think to 1916, not to 1940.

In 1913 there were more than 10 Romanian airplanes in the skies over Bulgaria, but as the Bulgarians had no airplanes, no chances for any victory...

[Dénes]

QUOTE

Actually none of the things you said are true.  :D

C-2 got at least the pilot's name correctly. 8)

I may add to what Victor rightfully wrote that the mentioned event took place on August 27, 1940.

Although Lt. av. rez. Nicolae Polizu indeed had the most confirmed 'kills' in the 1941 Campaign, according to the late-war ARR scoring system - which was applied retroactively - strangely, he wasn't actually the top ranking Rumanian fighter pilot in 1941, only the 7th.

Florin, the Bulgarians did have airplanes in 1913, only they did not meet in air with the Rumanian ones, or at least we don't know of any such encounter.

[Florin]

QUOTE

...Florin, the Bulgarians did have airplanes in 1913, only they did not meet in air with the Rumanian ones, or at least we don't know of any such encounter.

Maybe the Bulgarian airplanes were in the south. Bulgaria was already fighting in that moment with Greece and the Ottoman Empire, maybe also with Serbia.
The campaign designed by General Averescu was brilliant and fast, but was against a country already fighting with all the other neighbors. Some Bulgarians claimed that the Romanian action was like an unexpected stab in the back. Well, maybe they are right, but there was no treaty of non-aggression or alliance between Romania and Bulgaria, so I cannot say our part broke a rule or a treaty. (Like in 1916... :? )

In my previous post, I said the Romanian planes could shot down some Bulgarian counterpart, given the chance. However, at the very beginning of military aviation, the pilots did not fight each other. In 1914 the enemy pilots even used to salute each other, sometimes. They felt they are colleagues somehow. But very soon the necessity of the fighter plane became obvious... as you know better than me.

Just 10 days ago, I was upset and sad to don't discover the group photo with the Romanian pilots from the 1913 campaign, in some old Romanian magazines I have now here. I did not lost hope, however.

[Victor]

QUOTE

In 1913 there were more than 10 Romanian airplanes in the skies over Bulgaria, but as the Bulgarians had no airplanes, no chances for any victory...

Actually the Bulgarians were among the first to drop bombs out of airplanes in 1912 during the 1st Balkan War.

QUOTE

In my previous post, I said the Romanian planes could shot down some Bulgarian counterpart, given the chance.

The Romanian aircraft were not armed, IIRC, so such a thing would not have been possible. In fact early the "dogfights" in 1914 involved hunting rifles and revolvers being fired at the enemy's airplane.

[Carol I]

[quote]Actually the Bulgarians were among the first to drop bombs out of airplanes in 1912 during the 1st Balkan War.[/quote]

They claim to be the very first to use the airplanes as bombing weapons. Can anyone confirm their claim? Did anbody else drop bombs from aeroplanes before 1912?

[Florin]

[quote]Did anbody else drop bombs from aeroplanes before 1912?[/quote]

In 1911, in the war between Italy and the Ottoman Empire, carried in Libya, once an Italian plane thrown one little bomb / grenade. The pilot dropped it from his hand.

There was at least another Italian flight over the Turkish positions, for reconnaissance.

About the bombs dropped by the Bulgarians... Yes, I also read this for the first time. (Which does not mean too much, as I am not a reference.)

[Florin]

[quote] .......[quote] In my previous post, I said the Romanian planes could shot down some Bulgarian counterpart, given the chance. [/quote]

The Romanian aircraft were not armed, IIRC, so such a thing would not have been possible. In fact early the "dogfights" in 1914 involved hunting rifles and revolvers being fired at the enemy's airplane. [/quote]

Victor,

Just immediately after my text you quoted, I continued: "However, ...". So I tried to correct myself my previous post.
I introduced: "In my previous post, I said ..." to don't let the impression that some of my additions are a correction to the post sent by Denes.

[Carol I]

[quote]About the bombs dropped by the Bulgarians... Yes, I also read this for the first time. (Which does not mean too much, as I am not a reference.)[/quote]
Here is one link (of many) with the claim of the Bulgarians: http://www.geocities.com/bulgarian_aviatio...ory/history.htm

[quote]In 1911, in the war between Italy and the Ottoman Empire, carried in Libya, once an Italian plane thrown one little bomb / grenade. The pilot dropped it from his hand.[/quote]
Interesting information. But I guess the Bulgarians will argue that it was not a bomb, but a hand grenade. :wink:

[Florin]

[quote] ...... But I guess the Bulgarians will argue that it was not a bomb, but a hand grenade. :wink: [/quote]

In the link you offered, the last photo in the bottom also show how the Bulgarian crew member keep his "bomb" in his hand, and it is obviously the bombing was... Italian style!

Also from your link:

"According to the German edition of "Geschichte des Luftkriegs", Militarverlag der DDR, Berlin 1975 - during 1912 Great Britain has 23 planes in the army, Russia - 99, Germany - 46, Italy - 22, Japan -10, USA - 3. This was to say that Bulgaria with its 23 planes left behind countries as USA, Japan, Italy and draw up to countries as Great Britain."

The omission of Romania I don't like.
I do not claim now how many planes we had in 1912, but I'll return to the subject here in the forum.

[Carol I]

[quote][quote] ...... But I guess the Bulgarians will argue that it was not a bomb, but a hand grenade. :wink: [/quote]

In the link you offered, the last photo in the bottom also show how the Bulgarian crew member keep his "bomb" in his hand, and it is obviously the bombing was... Italian style! [/quote]

I'm not trying to defend the Bulgarians and I do not try to contradict your statement. But the thing is that the photos show that the Bulgarian bombs had fins as if they were designed to be dropped from the plane. This suggests that the Bulgarians had planned their attack from the air and strengthens their claim that they saw the aeroplane as an offensive weapon. The question is whether they were the first to do it or not?

Do you have more details about the 1911 Italian event? Was it about a hand grenade (which suggests that the inventive pilot or observer simply grabbed an opportunity) or about a bomb with fins (which would disprove the claim of the Bulgarians)?

[C-2]

So it was Carol II f it was in 1940 :blbl: :blbl: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .

[Carol I]

[quote]So it was Carol II f it was in 1940 :blbl: :blbl: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .[/quote]

:?:

[C-2]

Victor knows what I ment...