Romania buys C-130H

Tomcat1974,
AFM actualy stated that Romania would most likely select either the F-16 or JAS-39 as it next fighter. Regardless I have read multiple sources which also claim that the Romanian AF has a requirement for 9 "new" meduim-range transports.

Thank You

Look we are not the only one !


Iraqi Pilots Receive C-130 Training


Source: US Central Command


" BAGHDAD, Iraq - A five-man crew from Squadron 23 of the Iraqi Air Force trained for the first time on flying and operating an American C-130 cargo plane outside of Iraq’s air space.

A crew of U.S. Air Force pilots used a five-hour round-trip flight to Amman, Jordan as a training exercise for the Iraqi pilots and crew members. Five other crews from Squadron 23, of Ali Base in Talil, Iraq, were passengers on the flight, heading to training in Jordan. One crew will continue traveling to the U.S. for Hercules simulator training in Little Rock, Ark., said Wing Cmdr. Robert Greene, of the Multi-National Security Transition Command – Iraq.

All of the squadron members are experienced crews who are strengthening and expanding their skills after a 12-year lapse under Saddam Hussein’s rule, Greene said. This was their first time in the seats of a C-130, he added.

The next phase of training will focus on dealing with emergencies, approaches and landings, and general flying skills. "


Iama

First of all Roumania can't buy or lease at the moment almost no C130 nor F-16 due to the economical situation....secondly even a lease of JAS-39 would be too expensive as is one of the most expensivest fighters to operate......Due to ROM participation in Iraq they may get through the US FMS ( Foreign Military Sales) some old C-130's ex ANG in DE or WA...thats what I heard....and refurbish the older at IAI to be equivalent to J or H series .

Finally yes F-16 because several European AF's such as Belgium and Holland keeping many of the Block 30 and 40's stored under coatings without any future planned use...as such also Rumania is an option....ROM cant afford buying new F-16 series but probably lease them with FMS assistance once has qualified for it

Al

On what exactly are you basing this asumptions?
We where told that Romanian econmy was down that we don't have any hope, and stilll our defence acquistion plane is going on, where many Eastern Country didn't do anything related to defence, Romania did.

I dont have any assumptions, I know so, my own company is Defense oriented since 25 years or so , I am very much updated both from US Government, NATO and Rumanian side ( ROM AF Hdq) . At the present Rumanian AF doesnt have the funds to even buy so up to day flight gear for the MIG-29's and the Helicopters ....therefore I repeat and say that Rom has applied for FMS status with US and if they will be approved , which I think they might..they will get long terms loans to fulfill their needs to a specific extent, especially that Air National Guard is phasing out some C-130's

Alex

Alexkdl,

Romania is of course fileing for FMS funds, that doe's not prove, however that Romania is bankrupt as a nation. In 2003, Romania's GDP was 154.4 bil US$ with real growth at around 4.5%. While Romania is not a "Rich" nation, there are plenty of nations in worse economic condition then Romania is. Romania has done more then any other fomer Warsaw Pact nation except Poland, to modernize its armed forces. Other nations that receive FMS funds include Isreal, Greece, Turkey, Pakistan, Poland and Italy; none of which are incapable of purchaseing its own military equipment. FMS funds are given to "good" allies, of the United States.

The Romanian Air Force has a plan to modernize its assets over the coming deacde.This includes, but is not limited too the the purchase of around 48 "new" fighters; the most likey selection will be either the JAS-39 or F-16's, these will replace the Mig-21 Lancer A/C's. Atleast 6-8 additional C-130's to 4 C-130B's already in service. 9 "new" meduim range Transports, perhaps the LMATTS C-27J Spartan or EADS CASA C-295 will be selected. 12 "new" medium lift helicopters maybe NH-90, EH-101 or AS-532 Super Couger will fill this requirement. The purchase of 8 complete SAM systems. Also more SOCAT IAR-330 Puma's and 24 impoved IAR-99 SIOM's.

So far Romania has purchased 1 used C-130H with more to follow. One batch of 12 "new" IAR-99's has been delivered and more recently a second batch of 8 improved IAR-99's split between 3 new build and 5 rebuilt SIOM's has ordered. 8 complete MIM-23 HAWK SAM systems (78 vechles included) from the Netherlands for 23.5 million Euro's.12 more SOCAT IAR-330 Puma's have been ordered. While their is little doubt that the FMS funds will aid, Romania in modernizing its Air Force. Romania will purchase a good amount of its own equipment. For example the fighter requirement states that the 48 fighters must be built or assembled in Romania, as part of any deal.

Thank you

This post has been edited by Stephen Dabapuscu on February 15, 2005 05:10 am

Strange I didn't heard about the MIM-23 HAWK from Nederland aquisition. if that is true then this is the first major improvement in AA defense at medium range we have. From what I know , we had only a handfull of "KUB" systems(SA-6) (from the equivalent class) and the old V-75 (SA-2). What i heard is that we planed to buy Patriot-Hawk system ..the Hawk missile with the detection and guidance system from Patriot.

That Fighter requirement ...might cut out the second hand systems , except the case we will build spare parts only or upgrade them like we did with Lancer Update.

This post has been edited by tomcat1974 on February 15, 2005 04:29 pm

Sorry Stephen, I don't know where you got that info from, but according to the World Bank, Romania's GDP in 2003 was only 60 bn.$ !!!
Less than half of your estimates. I think alex is right. Look at the botched 1999 deal to build 100 AH-64s at IAR... for the same reason apparently - lack of money.

Sorry Stephen, I don't know where you got that info from, but according to the World Bank, Romania's GDP in 2003 was only 60 bn.$ !!!
Less than half of your estimates. I think alex is right. Look at the botched 1999 deal to build 100 AH-64s at IAR... for the same reason apparently - lack of money.

Not realy Accurate about the Bell Affair.
The affair was in 1995-1997 ... An it was about 96 AH-1 ... one thing...you can't compare the State of economy back then with what is now. Just for ex. the defence budget was in 2004 around 1.1 bn $. The total F16 cost for Poland was around 2.4 bn $ payable in many tranches I think.
Anyway the decision to choose a plane will be taken untill 2007 , and aquisition in 2010.

Stephen

Thanks for your message....I didnt say Roumnia is Bankrupt, all I said ROM AF has military aircraft, ordonance , flight gear , SAR equipment etc procurement stop on all respects. My own company sales world wide since 28 US military flight gear and SAR equipment.....we have direct contacts with ROM AF and MOD, as well have a local agent dealing also with IAR and AEROSTAR , in the moment nothing much is going on and ROM Military procurement projects are at the moment at 100% IDLE !

I don't wana say that that the end neither the begining is just the begining of the end ,as ROM is economically as hit as other NATO countries or even much worse....so I can assure you that in FY 2005 , ROM won't buy or lease any new fighters , all is left is a similar deal FMS has offered to Polen to lease F-16's .......because none nowadys would be crazy and lease the JAS-39 the most expensivest fighter to lease...as into the offsets procurement deals ...yeah possibly but maybe next year. Mininistry of Interior bought 3 -4 helicopters from Aerospatiale some 14 months ago, and that about it I know ....otherwise NO CASH NO FUNDS status anywhere. Aerostar has debts with their material vendors and I wonder how this will end .

Even aircraft refurbishements in foreign countries such as with IAI/AEROSTAR and DASA is by now on stop status. The oders backlog of IAR and AEROSTAR in foreign countries dont look too encourraging either. UAE ( Abu Dhabi AF just cancelled and order for 3 Super Pumas with the ROM MFG )

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 16, 2005 12:41 am

Alexkdl,

As Tomcat1974 has already stated Romania will most likey make its decision on which fighter it will purchase in 2007, either the block 50 F-16 C/D's or SAAB Gripen C/D's. In either case the fighters will be new-build aircraft. BAE is already lobbying hard for the Gripen, and I'am also quite sure that Lockeed-Martin will lobby hard as well. Perhaps the French Rafale has an outside chance of being selected.
Romania just purchased the 8 MIM-23 HAWK systems on January 20th, so I Romania is idle, at this very moment it is not the end of Air Force's reequipment plan.

Thank You

Stephen

Thanks for the feedback , I still disagree , because there are still 2 years to go and by than things can even dramatically worsen not only in Roumania but also world wide...half of the other non US Defense , French and UK Defense communities sitting in brink of bankruptcy , no matter how you take it......I am in this field since almost 30 years and I am closer to the front than many on here who just play war games and go on all possible assumptions from the news and roumours they hear from mass media or local TV stations.

Therefore lets not speculate what will be in 2007 , and frankly I'd be happy if till than something out of the current world crisis won't royally bang somewhere.....but since many people on here go on speculations and play war games...I would join the crowd for a moment too and say that the next scenario of serious conflicts may be close to the agressive and blackmailling North Korea ultra commies , Syria and Iran , eventually Pakistan and India.....on other areas I hardly doubt something may seriously go out of hand.

One thing, if the economy going to further deteriorate in Rumania , do you honestly believe the people in Roumania will let the Government go on military spendings for new fighters instead food...when actually Rumania has no real need for new fighters ,because if it will ever come to a local conflict with Ukraine or RUS who may potentially pose a threat to Roumania the likelyhood of air superiority with a some 30 F-16's or JAS-39 against the others is equal to none. I do not see something emerging out of Bulgaria ,Yougoslavia and Hungaria in the next years ,rather Ukraine....as they notoriously like troubles and their degraded nuclear arsenal and starving armed forces are nothing but a mess available for sale ....on first come first served basis .....If I would be Rumania I would stick with NATO task force , because thats a better guarranty than anything else.

Take Care
Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 16, 2005 06:41 pm

Bulgaria selects C-27 J, eight aircrafts, to replace his ageing russian An's.

Alenia Aeronautica: Bulgaria Selects the C-27J Transport Aircraft


Source: Finmeccanica


"The tactical military transport aircraft C-27J, jointly developed by Alenia Aeronautica - a Finmeccanica Company - and the U.S. Lockheed Martin, has been chosen by the Bulgarian Defence Ministry within a selection process for the supply of eight units aimed at replacing the current fleet of Antonov An-26 airlifters. Contract negotiations are due to start shortly.

The Italian-U.S. aircraft will be used for troops and material transport in and out of the national boundaries, within the operations scenario ruled by NATO agreements (Bulgaria is a NATO member since April 2004). The C-27J will allow the Bulgarian Armed Forces, engaged in a modernisation campaign, to use aircraft able to fully respect the interoperability standards, requested to the Atlantic Alliance Countries.

The C-27J is currently the most advanced new-generation programme of military tactical transport aircraft.

It has been ordered so far by the Air Forces of Italy (12 units) and of Greece (another 12 units). In the U.S. the aircraft is a candidate for the military transport aircraft modernisation programme, called FCA (Future Cargo Aircraft), while in Canada it is being proposed for the search-and-rescue aircraft fleet renewal.

The C-27J is also under evaluation by Portugal, Australia, Taiwan, Ireland and other countries recently become NATO members.

Finmeccanica is Italy’s leading high-tech company, operating in the design and manufacture of helicopters, aerostructures, satellites, space infrastructure, missiles and defence electronics. It employs around 51,000 staff in total. As part of its drive to maintain and build on its technological expertise, Finmeccanica spends the equivalent of over 16% of its revenues on research and development. "

Iama